Vote Present

Those who know me, realize I am not the kind of person who gives up. If it's something I am passionate about and believe in, I will fight for it until the day I die, that's just my nature. So when this idea was first suggested, needless to say, I wasn't impressed. It feels an awful lot like giving up, throwing in the towel, resigning to defeat. When it comes to something as important as my country, I find it very difficult to just walk away and give up. The 2012 elections dealt a major blow to Conservatives, it sent one of our most vibrant voices running for the hills in Jim DeMint, and the jubilant liberals are almost too much to bear these days. The left-wing of American politics has been emboldened like never before in history, and with this victory under their belts, will parade into the next 4 years with all the swagger and confidence in the world. There's simply no stopping the juggernaut, they will run roughshod over any conservative who dares to stand in their way.

Conservatives once had faith that most of the country was conservative and would ultimately prevail over the creeping liberalism, but the recent elections demonstrated that we're apparently not as conservative as conservatives believed. Now, granted, this is largely due to the fact that conservatives fragmented their votes by running to libertarianism, while liberals consolidated support through a coalition effort of mostly special interests. But the fact remains, you can't argue with the results. Liberals rule, and conservatives drool. Liberals have used the media to successfully turn Conservatism into a pariah, and instantly tarnish anyone who is associated with Republican politics. Republican Conservatives, in ANY debate these days, is kind of like the wife-beating husband trying to compete for Man of the Year. They don't stand a chance, and there's not a thing in the world they can do about it now. They've been forever stigmatized, branded for life, and no matter what they say, think, or do, they are Republicans, so they must be wrong.

So what can we do as Conservatives, to revive our message, to turn things around for Conservatism? Well, at this time, there isn't much we can do, really. From an analytic standpoint of politics, the only thing that will change the current dynamic, is time. Whether it was liberals who wanted liberal government, or libertarians who didn't care if we had liberal government, so long as a 'republican' didn't win, the people have spoken, and we got liberalism. The only thing that will work in bringing liberalism down, is to allow the people to see, feel and taste, liberalism. When they've had a belly full, and they realize that pure liberalism, like any other ideology in purist form, is NOT GOOD, then we'll have change. As a student of politics my entire adult life, I realize this, and I know that eventually pure liberalism will become so sickening to the majority of America, they will turn on it and reject it completely. That day is surely coming. I may not see it in my lifetime, but I bet that I do.

I meet a lot of young people these days, and it surprises me at how much different they are than the young people of 10-15 years ago, they aren't nearly as liberal thinking. Generational differences are a huge thing that no one ever seems to consider in politics. Oh we hear about the "youth vote" all the time, but it's really a meaningless demographic, and doesn't tell us anything about the political mindset these individuals will have as they grow up. Our politics are largely determined by our own life experiences and world view. Many kids who are in their teens now, are experiencing a life much more modest and less hopeful than their parents teen years, and that has a big psychological effect. As much as the current 18-30 generation is rebelling against their Reagan-era parents, the future 18-30 generation will rebel against their Obama-era parents, and the beat goes on.

Conservatism has to bide its time. Pure unadulterated (pardon the almost pun) Liberalism, must be allowed to run its course, and the people have to experience how that all works out. As a conservative, I know it will ultimately work out badly, and I worry that the nation may not be able to sustain the damage, but we are where we are now, and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it at this point. I say we should encourage our politicians to vote "present" on everything! Let the Liberals do whatever the hell they want to do!

You want to raise taxes? Fine, we're voting "present" on it!
Want to disband the military? Voting present!
Wanting to legalize pot or gay marriage? Present!

Let the Liberals have full control and accountability on every aspect of government. Let's just go ahead and let them have everything their hearts desire, and get it all out of their system, every stinking bit of it here and now. Transform us, Liberals! Give us all free stuff, and stuff our mailboxes with government checks! Sign us all up! Need another raise in the debt ceiling... SURE! We're voting present, you can do whatever you please! You know what's best, you know what will work, and you're going to fight anything we have to say like it's the end of the world, so go for it! We'll vote present and let you geniuses run things for a while, and see what the people think.

Eventually, the people will again turn to Conservatives and look for a voice to lead them out of the abyss, and that's when Conservatism makes a comeback. The "Blame Rhetoric" game will not work anymore for Liberals, they will be like naked warriors. Exposed by their own results and failures, and unable to mount any kind of formidable challenge. Younger generations will emerge, and not be tricked by the media or pundits as they are now, they will reject the ideas of 'hope and change' and embrace a strong unified conservative message of principle for the future. They will have become wiser through their parents mistakes, and Liberalism will be on the ropes in much the same way as Conservatism is now.

It only takes time. For now, we should just vote present.
 
I didn't read all that but I think I captured the gist of it. In a sane system of governance, what you are talking about would be how things would go following the 2012 election. Democrats won the Senate, won the Presidency and won the most votes in the House by about 1 million votes at the last count that I saw. Under the circumstances, the Democrats should run shit. But that's not how our government works, because it's crazy.
 
If I had the energy, I'd dig up the thread Dixie posted a few weeks before the election when he thought Romney would win, telling liberals that they were about to be in the position they liked best - bitching about who was in power, and stomping their feet & all that.

Great irony. Perfect, actually.
 
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Those who know me, realize I am not the kind of person who gives up. If it's something I am passionate about and believe in, I will fight for it until the day I die, that's just my nature. So when this idea was first suggested, needless to say, I wasn't impressed. It feels an awful lot like giving up, throwing in the towel, resigning to defeat. When it comes to something as important as my country, I find it very difficult to just walk away and give up. The 2012 elections dealt a major blow to Conservatives, it sent one of our most vibrant voices running for the hills in Jim DeMint, and the jubilant liberals are almost too much to bear these days. The left-wing of American politics has been emboldened like never before in history, and with this victory under their belts, will parade into the next 4 years with all the swagger and confidence in the world. There's simply no stopping the juggernaut, they will run roughshod over any conservative who dares to stand in their way.

Conservatives once had faith that most of the country was conservative and would ultimately prevail over the creeping liberalism, but the recent elections demonstrated that we're apparently not as conservative as conservatives believed. Now, granted, this is largely due to the fact that conservatives fragmented their votes by running to libertarianism, while liberals consolidated support through a coalition effort of mostly special interests. But the fact remains, you can't argue with the results. Liberals rule, and conservatives drool. Liberals have used the media to successfully turn Conservatism into a pariah, and instantly tarnish anyone who is associated with Republican politics. Republican Conservatives, in ANY debate these days, is kind of like the wife-beating husband trying to compete for Man of the Year. They don't stand a chance, and there's not a thing in the world they can do about it now. They've been forever stigmatized, branded for life, and no matter what they say, think, or do, they are Republicans, so they must be wrong.

So what can we do as Conservatives, to revive our message, to turn things around for Conservatism? Well, at this time, there isn't much we can do, really. From an analytic standpoint of politics, the only thing that will change the current dynamic, is time. Whether it was liberals who wanted liberal government, or libertarians who didn't care if we had liberal government, so long as a 'republican' didn't win, the people have spoken, and we got liberalism. The only thing that will work in bringing liberalism down, is to allow the people to see, feel and taste, liberalism. When they've had a belly full, and they realize that pure liberalism, like any other ideology in purist form, is NOT GOOD, then we'll have change. As a student of politics my entire adult life, I realize this, and I know that eventually pure liberalism will become so sickening to the majority of America, they will turn on it and reject it completely. That day is surely coming. I may not see it in my lifetime, but I bet that I do.

I meet a lot of young people these days, and it surprises me at how much different they are than the young people of 10-15 years ago, they aren't nearly as liberal thinking. Generational differences are a huge thing that no one ever seems to consider in politics. Oh we hear about the "youth vote" all the time, but it's really a meaningless demographic, and doesn't tell us anything about the political mindset these individuals will have as they grow up. Our politics are largely determined by our own life experiences and world view. Many kids who are in their teens now, are experiencing a life much more modest and less hopeful than their parents teen years, and that has a big psychological effect. As much as the current 18-30 generation is rebelling against their Reagan-era parents, the future 18-30 generation will rebel against their Obama-era parents, and the beat goes on.

Conservatism has to bide its time. Pure unadulterated (pardon the almost pun) Liberalism, must be allowed to run its course, and the people have to experience how that all works out. As a conservative, I know it will ultimately work out badly, and I worry that the nation may not be able to sustain the damage, but we are where we are now, and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it at this point. I say we should encourage our politicians to vote "present" on everything! Let the Liberals do whatever the hell they want to do!

You want to raise taxes? Fine, we're voting "present" on it!
Want to disband the military? Voting present!
Wanting to legalize pot or gay marriage? Present!

Let the Liberals have full control and accountability on every aspect of government. Let's just go ahead and let them have everything their hearts desire, and get it all out of their system, every stinking bit of it here and now. Transform us, Liberals! Give us all free stuff, and stuff our mailboxes with government checks! Sign us all up! Need another raise in the debt ceiling... SURE! We're voting present, you can do whatever you please! You know what's best, you know what will work, and you're going to fight anything we have to say like it's the end of the world, so go for it! We'll vote present and let you geniuses run things for a while, and see what the people think.

Eventually, the people will again turn to Conservatives and look for a voice to lead them out of the abyss, and that's when Conservatism makes a comeback. The "Blame Rhetoric" game will not work anymore for Liberals, they will be like naked warriors. Exposed by their own results and failures, and unable to mount any kind of formidable challenge. Younger generations will emerge, and not be tricked by the media or pundits as they are now, they will reject the ideas of 'hope and change' and embrace a strong unified conservative message of principle for the future. They will have become wiser through their parents mistakes, and Liberalism will be on the ropes in much the same way as Conservatism is now.

It only takes time. For now, we should just vote present.


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA its all the liberal media's fault.
 
I didn't read all that but I think I captured the gist of it. In a sane system of governance, what you are talking about would be how things would go following the 2012 election. Democrats won the Senate, won the Presidency and won the most votes in the House by about 1 million votes at the last count that I saw. Under the circumstances, the Democrats should run shit. But that's not how our government works, because it's crazy.

Our government isn't crazy it's being intentionally perverted by the oligarchy to gain it's ends. Those ends have no regard for democracy or the people of this country. They're paid operatives are the baggers and the GOP and some bluedogs.
 
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Dixie, one problem conservatives are going to have today with younger people is that when viewed in action (the Bush administration) conservatism didn't look all that great. Lots of wars, lots of (out of control) spending. I don't think Romney did a good job getting the conservative message out either. His whole 47% line was bullcrap. The idea behind conservatism is that all people have a chance to improve their lot in life. Insulting people as takers is not how you win them over to your message and side.

Another thing conservatives need to work on is our rhetoric. Take Hispanics for example. Winning Hispanics over to our side isn't about just saying let's open all borders and let anyone and everyone enter the country who wants to. But the dismissive tone that was used during the primary by Romney especially but others as well does nothing but turn Hispanics off. I wouldn't want to be talked to that way. Hispanics are no different. Could obviously go on a lot more but I think conservatives lost track through the Bush years for what they stand for and need to find a way to get it back.
 
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dixie said:
Let the Liberals have full control and accountability on every aspect of government. Let's just go ahead and let them have everything their hearts desire, and get it all out of their system, every stinking bit of it here and now. Transform us, Liberals! Give us all free stuff, and stuff our mailboxes with government checks! Sign us all up! Need another raise in the debt ceiling... SURE! We're voting present, you can do whatever you please! You know what's best, you know what will work, and you're going to fight anything we have to say like it's the end of the world, so go for it! We'll vote present and let you geniuses run things for a while, and see what the people think
That's pretty much what Bush had, and it almost destroyed the country.

How much worse do you really think it could be? And why not this call for surrender 4 years ago? We'd be much better off already, if not for 4 years of blatant obstructionism.

We both know that your plan will never be realized, but I'm betting we'd be a lot better off if it were.
 
I say we should encourage our politicians to vote "present" on everything! Let the Liberals do whatever the hell they want to do!

You want to raise taxes? Fine, we're voting "present" on it!
Want to disband the military? Voting present!
Wanting to legalize pot or gay marriage? Present!

Let the Liberals have full control and accountability on every aspect of government. Let's just go ahead and let them have everything their hearts desire, and get it all out of their system, every stinking bit of it here and now. Transform us, Liberals! Give us all free stuff, and stuff our mailboxes with government checks! Sign us all up! Need another raise in the debt ceiling... SURE! We're voting present, you can do whatever you please! You know what's best, you know what will work, and you're going to fight anything we have to say like it's the end of the world, so go for it! We'll vote present and let you geniuses run things for a while, and see what the people think.

It only takes time. For now, we should just vote present.
This has been my take from the get-go.

Vote present and let the chips fall where they may. It's the best thing to do.
 
What Dixie doesn't realize in his moonshine-induced delirium is that what his beloved conservatives will be doing is voting "present" on a tax CUT for the middle class.

Wait til they go home and tell their constituents they voted present instead.
 
Dixie, one problem conservatives are going to have today with younger people is that when viewed in action (the Bush administration) conservatism didn't look all that great. Lots of wars, lots of (out of control) spending. I don't think Romney did a good job getting the conservative message out either. His whole 47% line was bullcrap. The idea behind conservatism is that all people have a chance to improve their lot in life. Insulting people as takers is not how you win them over to your message and side.

Another thing conservatives need to work on is our rhetoric. Take Hispanics for example. Winning Hispanics over to our side isn't about just saying let's open all borders and let anyone and everyone enter the country who wants to. But the dismissive tone that was used during the primary by Romney especially but others as well does nothing but turn Hispanics off. I wouldn't want to be talked to that way. Hispanics are no different. Could obviously go on a lot more but I think conservatives lost track through the Bush years for what they stand for and need to find a way to get it back.

Here's the thing, and don't take this personally, I give you a bit of a pass on being out of touch with conservatism, being where you live. The Bush's are part of the problem here, they never have been conservatives. Oh, they attempted to be a new "kinder and gentler" type of conservative, but the Bush family is not a conservative bunch. Prescott may have been, he was before my time, so I can't really say, but HW was the viperous opponent of Ronald Reagan. He was the first to attack supply-side economics and called it "voodoo" long before the Democrats ever uttered a peep about it. Many smart historians believe Reagan chose Bush as his VP, specifically to eliminate him as a political adversary in the party, and adversary to Reagan conservatism, as it were. No sooner than HW got himself elected on the boss' coattails, he began tearing down his policies and destroying what Reagan had built. What Bush didn't successfully eliminate, his son did. The two of them, along with Bill Clinton, who ironically did the least damage, erased 8 years of work and effort to restore conservative principles in government.

You say, "when conservatives had a shot" but conservatives haven't had a shot since Reagan. We've been electing REPUBLICANS! Mitt Romney was not a Conservative. When he attempted to carry the conservative message to the people, without comprehending and understanding core conservative principles and values and how they all relate to one another, the message simply failed. It is attacked by liberalism and stigmatized just as you articulated in your rant, as "out of touch" and insensitive or offensive. Arrogant and condescending. The 47% comment, how dare he? Fuck it was the truth, except it was more like 51-52% We're a nation of freeloaders who think government is supposed to pay for our shit, man. The people have spoken!

I don't think we need to worry about courting the illegal immigrant vote, I don't think illegal immigrants are going to be the problem in the future. In fact, we might actually start to see Mexico bitch about illegal Americans crossing the borders into Mexico to find work and stuff, before all is said and done here. No, all we conservatives need to do, is vote "present" on everything, let the liberals have full reign and control of it all and do whatever they fucking please, for as long as the people will allow it. We need to quietly work on our conservative plan to raise a country from the dead, because when we get it back, that's where we will be, but the people will be to the point of wanting to listen to conservatives again, instead of condemning them because of the letter beside their names.
 
Here's the thing, and don't take this personally, I give you a bit of a pass on being out of touch with conservatism, being where you live. The Bush's are part of the problem here, they never have been conservatives. Oh, they attempted to be a new "kinder and gentler" type of conservative, but the Bush family is not a conservative bunch. Prescott may have been, he was before my time, so I can't really say, but HW was the viperous opponent of Ronald Reagan. He was the first to attack supply-side economics and called it "voodoo" long before the Democrats ever uttered a peep about it. Many smart historians believe Reagan chose Bush as his VP, specifically to eliminate him as a political adversary in the party, and adversary to Reagan conservatism, as it were. No sooner than HW got himself elected on the boss' coattails, he began tearing down his policies and destroying what Reagan had built. What Bush didn't successfully eliminate, his son did. The two of them, along with Bill Clinton, who ironically did the least damage, erased 8 years of work and effort to restore conservative principles in government.

You say, "when conservatives had a shot" but conservatives haven't had a shot since Reagan. We've been electing REPUBLICANS! Mitt Romney was not a Conservative. When he attempted to carry the conservative message to the people, without comprehending and understanding core conservative principles and values and how they all relate to one another, the message simply failed. It is attacked by liberalism and stigmatized just as you articulated in your rant, as "out of touch" and insensitive or offensive. Arrogant and condescending. The 47% comment, how dare he? Fuck it was the truth, except it was more like 51-52% We're a nation of freeloaders who think government is supposed to pay for our shit, man. The people have spoken!

I don't think we need to worry about courting the illegal immigrant vote, I don't think illegal immigrants are going to be the problem in the future. In fact, we might actually start to see Mexico bitch about illegal Americans crossing the borders into Mexico to find work and stuff, before all is said and done here. No, all we conservatives need to do, is vote "present" on everything, let the liberals have full reign and control of it all and do whatever they fucking please, for as long as the people will allow it. We need to quietly work on our conservative plan to raise a country from the dead, because when we get it back, that's where we will be, but the people will be to the point of wanting to listen to conservatives again, instead of condemning them because of the letter beside their names.

I agree. This is a better version in some ways than mine a few days after the election to just go along with any votes, explaining they were not going to stand against the will of the people. Voting present is better. Demonstrates one isn't in favor of, but not blocking either. Get rid of the 'obstruction' label, and let the other side fully own the outcome.

There does need to be articulation of why conservatives think a particular decision is wrong and what is the likely outcome. Alternatives may be brought up, again with likely seen outcomes. Then let those that own and vote for a certain choice, deal with whatever happens. If their policies result in a better life for most Americans, they will have one party. If not, the alternative exists.

Whatever the outcome, the current Republican vision of trying to be Democrat lite isn't working. It's obvious that Obama is going to get his more taxes, more spending 'budget' plan through, with 'present' or with 'obstruction.' There comes a time of learning 'natural consequences.'
 
I agree. This is a better version in some ways than mine a few days after the election to just go along with any votes, explaining they were not going to stand against the will of the people. Voting present is better. Demonstrates one isn't in favor of, but not blocking either. Get rid of the 'obstruction' label, and let the other side fully own the outcome.

There does need to be articulation of why conservatives think a particular decision is wrong and what is the likely outcome. Alternatives may be brought up, again with likely seen outcomes. Then let those that own and vote for a certain choice, deal with whatever happens. If their policies result in a better life for most Americans, they will have one party. If not, the alternative exists.

Whatever the outcome, the current Republican vision of trying to be Democrat lite isn't working. It's obvious that Obama is going to get his more taxes, more spending 'budget' plan through, with 'present' or with 'obstruction.' There comes a time of learning 'natural consequences.'
Well said, Annie.

Let the chips fall where they may and let them own it, lock, stock and barrel. If tax hikes make the economy take-off, then I will be thrilled to be wrong and happy for the country.
 
What Dixie doesn't realize in his moonshine-induced delirium is that what his beloved conservatives will be doing is voting "present" on a tax CUT for the middle class.

Wait til they go home and tell their constituents they voted present instead.
Their constituents ARE the middle class. That's the rub. I see this isn't a moment of clarity for Dixie. It's being parroted on Fox News. So their new position is that the dems should have free reign. Why didn't they adopt that attitude 4 years ago?

This is about avoiding a primary challenge from a teabagger. It doesn't matter WHY they step aside and let dems fix the mess. As long as they DO.
 
I agree Althea...this is a way, they think, to save face to avoid the baggers but it won't work. It doesn't matter why they do it just that they get out of the way. They don't lead, have no good ideas....lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.
 
I agree Althea...this is a way, they think, to save face to avoid the baggers but it won't work. It doesn't matter why they do it just that they get out of the way. They don't lead, have no good ideas....lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.
This isn't about saving face. It's about allowing the American people to get up close and personal with the results of Statism.

Soaking the rich will only cripple the economy further and is going to make life suck for hoards of people. A lifestyle most will not settle for.
 
This isn't about saving face. It's about allowing the American people to get up close and personal with the results of Statism.

Soaking the rich will only cripple the economy further and is going to make life suck for hoards of people. A lifestyle most will not settle for.

You lost. Man up and get over it.
 
.

Soaking the rich will only cripple the economy further and is going to make life suck for hoards of people. A lifestyle most will not settle for.
Soaking? Were they "soaked" under Clinton?

The supposed rich have never had more money in the collective coffers than they do now. In theory, the economy should be booming.

So what's wrong? Don't give us the 'uncertainty' meme. That doesn't address reality.
 
If I had the energy, I'd dig up the thread Dixie posted a few weeks before the election when he thought Romney would win, telling liberals that they were about to be in the position they liked best - bitching about who was in power, and stomping their feet & all that.

Great irony. Perfect, actually.

In 2010 Dixie and his cronies bragged after the mid-term elections that there was a new day in American politics and the Tea Party was in its ascendency. Where's the TP now? Two years of repub politics and people raced back to the sane party.
 
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