Walmart Responsible for Gunmen?

Damocles said:
Not particularly, WalMart isn't in the Security business. Sony should have made sure they had an infinite supply, right? Shouldn't they know that this will happen? Come on....

The only ones that are culpable are the retards who think shooting people over a game is important.
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You don't have to be "in the security business" to ensure your customers are safe. When you clearly have a pattern tramplings and violence around releases they should have teh obligation to try to curb it as much as possible. If it means having a cop patrol the area so be it. If it means having a sign up list, well then so be it. Continually doing the same thing that fosters this kind of mob rule is irresponsible.
 
uscitizen said:
Problem fixed, I just sent WalMart an email telling them to sell no more PS3's.
Perhaps it should be a federal law since selling PS3's seems to cause crime ?
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I didn't say they couldn't sell it. I'm just saying if the way that they are releasing these things foster mobs and mob rule they should stop doing it. If it happens once, its understandable, but there is a clearly defined pattern that we've seen year after year after. I'm sure if companies are held liable then we'll see a sharp reduction in incidents related to game system releases.
 
LadyT said:
You don't have to be "in the security business" to ensure your customers are safe. When you clearly have a pattern tramplings and violence around releases they should have teh obligation to try to curb it as much as possible. If it means having a cop patrol the area so be it. If it means having a sign up list, well then so be it. Continually doing the same thing that fosters this kind of mob rule is irresponsible.
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How do you know that they didn't add security? You are just assuming. Plus, how often has that particular store had this issue?

As I said before, those people who wish to be safe will go elsewhere at the next release, and if they are smart they'll work to resolve issues. However they certainly aren't culpable for the actions of others who are way too insistent on getting a game. They certainly have no criminal culpability in simply selling a popular item.

It's like a bar in an area that has many gang members, are they culpable if one of their customers should harm another? They work to resolve it, but nobody can insure 100% safety for their customers.
 
Damocles said:
How do you know that they didn't add security? You are just assuming. Plus, how often has that particular store had this issue?

As I said before, those people who wish to be safe will go elsewhere at the next release, and if they are smart they'll work to resolve issues. However they certainly aren't culpable for the actions of others who are way too insistent on getting a game. They certainly have no criminal culpability in simply selling a popular item.

It's like a bar in an area that has many gang members, are they culpable if one of their customers should harm another? They work to resolve it, but nobody can insure 100% safety for their customers.
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Clearly they didn't have enough security. Having police around would have definitely quelled the situation. What harm does it do dole out a lottery or give tickets to people who are in line? None. And by the way our courts have dictated that negligence can lead to criminal culpability.
 
LadyT said:
Clearly they didn't have enough security. Having police around would have definitely quelled the situation. What harm does it do dole out a lottery or give tickets to people who are in line? None. And by the way our courts have dictated that negligence can lead to criminal culpability.
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Once again, how do you know what they had done? Did they hire more security? Did they tell people that it was limited? Pretending that you know because of what happened doesn't make it real. Just saying "clearly" they didn't do enough...

First you would have to prove that they would know, that this was likely at all. When was the last time somebody was shot at this store during a release? Do you know? Honestly, criminal culpability would be very hard to even get close to proving. Even attempting to sue would be an unlikely win.
 
Uh Damo, if this was an ISOLATED event, perhaps you'd have a leg to stand on. But did you read the article? In just one article there are SEVERAL instances of people getting robbed and hurt over these things as they are leaving the parking lots of these stores. That is GROSS negligence on their part. If there was proper security and police presence this would not have happened. Can you prove that they did have sufficient security?
 
LadyT said:
Uh Damo, if this was an ISOLATED event, perhaps you'd have a leg to stand on. But did you read the article? In just one article there are SEVERAL instances of people getting robbed and hurt over these things as they are leaving the parking lots of these stores. That is GROSS negligence on their part. If there was proper security and police presence this would not have happened. Can you prove that they did have sufficient security?
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However, all of the events happened at the same time. How do you know they had any idea that this would happen? The release happened at the same time across the nation. First of all, they would have to have known in advance people were going to rob others over a stupid game. I wonder how many suspected this would happen. How often had it happened to them in the past?

What type of security did they add for the event? Just saying that this happened in several places doesn't prove that they knew that this would happen. In fact, that it happened in several places seems to show that nobody was prepared for this.
 
I've heard reports of this every time a game system is released. Its nothing new. Please don't be obtuse and pretend it doesn't.
This type of thing sprang up last year when the XBox came out too.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2005-11-23-xbox-fight_x.htm

"That's when all hell broke loose," said Ben DiSabatino IV, a 23-year-old Bear, Del., resident, who had been waiting in line since 4 p.m.

"It was like a mosh pit," 30-year-old Michael Pearman of Newark, Del., told the Cecil Whig.


They weren't prepared because they chose to be unprepared. Gross Negligence and hope they all get snot sued out of them.
 
LadyT said:
I've heard reports of this every time a game system is released. Its nothing new. Please don't be obtuse and pretend it doesn't.
This type of thing sprang up last year when the XBox came out too.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2005-11-23-xbox-fight_x.htm

"That's when all hell broke loose," said Ben DiSabatino IV, a 23-year-old Bear, Del., resident, who had been waiting in line since 4 p.m.

"It was like a mosh pit," 30-year-old Michael Pearman of Newark, Del., told the Cecil Whig.


They weren't prepared because they chose to be unprepared. Gross Negligence and hope they all get snot sued out of them.
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Okay, but it happened at Target, and it wasn't somebody attempting to rob the line for their money either...

Also at Best Buy, and across the nation. Pretending that this is all WalMart is just as disingenuous. As I said... How do you know that this manager realized the danger? Was he working the last time there was a release? That it happened across the nation, at multiple stores, in many areas pretty much tells me that it isn't just the fault of WalMart. In fact, it seems that limited releases seems to be the issue. Let's once again look at the people releasing it in such a manner rather than simply looking at those who sell them.

Stupid? Maybe. Criminal? Not even close.
 
Damocles said:
That it happened across the nation, at multiple stores, in many areas pretty much tells me that it isn't just the fault of WalMart.
QUOTE]

Ahem:

Tiana said:
I think the stores should be held partially liable for stuff like this. Not just Walmart.
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Damocles said:
Stupid? Maybe. Criminal? Not even close.
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Criminal negligence. This stuff has been going on for years. And it will continue to do so unless local gov't step in and demand that they come up with a better way of handling this.
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LadyT said:
Criminal negligence. This stuff has been going on for years. And it will continue to do so unless local gov't step in and demand that they come up with a better way of handling this.
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Like I said, the best you can hope for is a lawsuit, the "beyond a reasonable doubt" thing will simply be too high.

With this particular one, the only report of a shooting that I can find, it happened before the release. How do you know if they didn't hire extra security for when they opened to control the crowd? You don't. You still make too many assumptions on this one. Somebody robbing somebody standing in a line is the fault of the robber, not of the store.

Did they ask for more drive-thrus by the cops? Probably. Did they have a robbery last time? Doubtful.
 
Damocles said:
Like I said, the best you can hope for is a lawsuit, the "beyond a reasonable doubt" thing will simply be too high.

With this particular one, the only report of a shooting that I can find, it happened before the release. How do you know if they didn't hire extra security for when they opened to control the crowd? You don't. You still make too many assumptions on this one. Somebody robbing somebody standing in a line is the fault of the robber, not of the store.

Did they ask for more drive-thrus by the cops? Probably. Did they have a robbery last time? Doubtful.
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Well, if the cops were asked to patrol and they didn't do their jobs, that's one thing. The point is damo, I've heard reports about this stuff for the last 3 or 4 years. Several people have been hurt, yet the stores are still doing the same thing.
 
LadyT said:
Well, if the cops were asked to patrol and they didn't do their jobs, that's one thing. The point is damo, I've heard reports about this stuff for the last 3 or 4 years. Several people have been hurt, yet the stores are still doing the same thing.
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They might not be. As I said, we have no idea if they hired more security to be there at the opening. We don't know if this Walmart was even open the last time there was a release. Nor the Target that had the issue in California...

How do you know they are doing it exactly as they did before? Maybe they increased security, to a level they thought was enough, but it turned out that they were wrong?

It's always easy to blame the store. I still blame the perpetrators.
 
Damocles said:
They might not be. As I said, we have no idea if they hired more security to be there at the opening. We don't know if this Walmart was even open the last time there was a release. Nor the Target that had the issue in California...

How do you know they are doing it exactly as they did before? Maybe they increased security, to a level they thought was enough, but it turned out that they were wrong?

It's always easy to blame the store. I still blame the perpetrators.
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No its easy to only blame the perpetrators. Its a little more difficult to step outside the box and lay blame on institutions that facilitate and nurture these crimes.

If a court of law proves that took necessary precautions fine, but as it stands year after year the same thing happens in multiple cities and the stores year after year have people waiting outside only to stampede the aisles and get robbed when they exit. Do we have to wait for people to die en mass before we say, "wait a minute", we should change this.
 
LadyT said:
No its easy to only blame the perpetrators. Its a little more difficult to step outside the box and lay blame on institutions that facilitate and nurture these crimes.

If a court of law proves that took necessary precautions fine, but as it stands year after year the same thing happens in multiple cities and the stores year after year have people waiting outside only to stampede the aisles and get robbed when they exit. Do we have to wait for people to die en mass before we say, "wait a minute", we should change this.
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Probably, we have short memories.
 
I don't think the stores fostered it. I believe that the people who released such a minimal number of boxes fostered it, and on purpose. They want great excitement... the more the merrier.
 
I've heard reports of this every time a game system is released. Its nothing new.
//

And yet the sheeple keep showing up.....
 
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