Warming Up to Hillary (Sort of)

OrnotBitwise

OrnotBitwise

Watermelon
I still think she's way too conservative -- and willing to embrace any political expediency -- to adequately represent me or people like me, but there's at least one interesting up side to Hillary Clinton. Well, two, if you count the first female president thing, which I would.

Many of us have said many times that one of the biggest problems with politics today is that it's become a popularity contest. Even a beauty pageant, in some cases. People stupidly vote for a candidate whom they think they would "like" as if their Senator or President might drop by for a steak and a beer someday.

Senator Clinton, on the other hand, is leading (at least for now) while being the least popular of the Democratic front runners. That's not all that common anymore.

If she's nominated by the Dems I'll almost certainly vote for her, unless she says something really dumb between now and then, or my party comes up with a really great candidate. :rolleyes:

I think she may have a chance, after all.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/13/schneider.likability/index.html
 
Shes not my first choice but she is bright enough and will appoint great people to the different departments.

She will not suffer idiots like Bush does for loyalty like Bush does.

They will be people who believe Government CAN work.

We have had so many years of people in positions who think that Government is a beast which needs to be killed and using their positions to do the opposite of what they are supposed to be doing that the change will be very dramatic I think.
 
she's by far the most favored by dems by double digits, and she's my favorite as a moderate dem. Maybe your more a far left Kusenich type dem?:clink:
 
Ornot, I am not really sure about her chances of being elected pres. I would guestimate about 50/50 right now. Which as you allude is pretty good, all things considered.

I also agree very strongly with your opening paragraph.
To me it really comes down to removing more Republican power from govt at this time, regardless of the demo nominee.
Hillary would be a bittersweet victory for me if shw won.

On one hand I would love to see the Rush's and such of the world literally have a stroke or heart attack over her victory. I wonder how many might actually die over it ? Anyway it would be bittersweet for me because she is to con/coprorate leaning, and would cave in for political expediency far to easially. as you state.

I just want any demoncrat to win, however there are some I might want to win more than others. I am not enthuastic about any of them, even the shadow candidate Gore....
But continued neocon rule scares me.
 
I love the fact that many of you seem snowed under by the belief that Hillary is a moderate. SHE IS NOT BILL. He was a moderate. She is far to the left. Just because she is playing the role of moderate to try to get elected doesn't mean she is ACTUALLY a moderate. She will be detrimental to our trade agreements, she will do everything in her power to bring back hillarycare, she will be every bit as divisive as Bush has been and the markets will not like it if she becomes President.
 
Naah SF, she will just play the politics game for the most part. and ulesss lots more Republicans get booted from congress hillary will be kissing up to them for the most part. ughh, a scary image that....brrrr
 
Superfreak said:
I love the fact that many of you seem snowed under by the belief that Hillary is a moderate. SHE IS NOT BILL. He was a moderate. She is far to the left. Just because she is playing the role of moderate to try to get elected doesn't mean she is ACTUALLY a moderate. She will be detrimental to our trade agreements, she will do everything in her power to bring back hillarycare, she will be every bit as divisive as Bush has been and the markets will not like it if she becomes President.
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SHE IS NOT BILL. He was a moderate. She is far to the left

Please. No more unsubstantiated statements.

What does the actual voting record show? Bush Tax cuts? Voted for. Iraq War Authorization? Voted for. Dedicated NAFTA "free" trader, in spite of recent vote against CAFTA. Voted against all iraq timetable withdrawls, until recently. Supported the notorious bankruptcy bill. etc
 
Cypress said:
SHE IS NOT BILL. He was a moderate. She is far to the left

Please. No more unsubstantiated statements.

What does the actual voting record show? Bush Tax cuts? Voted for. Iraq War Authorization? Voted for. Dedicated NAFTA "free" trader, in spite of recent vote against CAFTA. Voted against all iraq timetable withdrawls, until recently. Supported the notorious bankruptcy bill. etc
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What Bush tax cuts did she vote for? CNN says she opposed Bush's 2001 and 2003 tax cuts and opposed extending tax cuts through 2010.
 
American Dental Association ?

sigh guess I will have to hit the link to find out which ADA...

Umm after review of what that org says it is about, I conclude that the ADA are just like Cons on bush. Have to have someone ;)
 
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cawacko said:
Here's the ADA liberal rating of Hillary Clinton...

2006 - 95%

http://www.adaction.org/2006Senatevr.htm

2005 - 100%

http://www.adaction.org/ADATodayVR2005.pdf

2004 - 95%

http://www.adaction.org/ADATodayVR2004.pdf

You get the idea. I don't think calling her liberal is unsubstanciated at all.
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ADA gives almost every Democratic senator between a 90 and 95% rating.


http://www.adaction.org/2006Senatevr.htm

As a comparative quantitative tool, it's almost useless.


We'd need some kind of quantitative system that breaks out a little more nuance.
 
Darla said:
Where is this idea that Hillary is a closet leftist coming from Ornot? I cracked up when usc said "the american dental association"? Because, that would explain the whole mistaken impression.
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I really don't know. I've wondered for a long time just why it is that so many people think that she's (A) extremely bitchy and (B) very liberal. I've no idea about (A) -- and, frankly, don't care -- but (B) is demonstrably false.

That's what intrigues me about her potential candidacy though. She may just be smart and ruthless enough to overcome the fact that, for whatever reasons, a lot of people simply don't like her. I like that idea, I must say. As much as I dislike cynical pandering to interest groups, which she's clearly guilty of, I'm even less fond of this weird tendency people have for voting on the basis of likability. It's unforgivably stupid.
 
Darla said:
Where is this idea that Hillary is a closet leftist coming from Ornot? I cracked up when usc said "the american dental association"? Because, that would explain the whole mistaken impression.
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It comes from HillaryCare. That was one program that had nothing to do with moderate. That program had never even looked up moderate in the dictionary. Once it passed moderate by in the street, but it was on a different plane of existence and therefore it couldn't see it. It just got a cold feeling and a quick shiver.
 
Damocles said:
It comes from HillaryCare. That was one program that had nothing to do with moderate. That program had never even looked up moderate in the dictionary. Once it passed moderate by in the street, but it was on a different plane of existence and therefore it couldn't see it. It just got a cold feeling and a quick shiver.
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Majorities in this country now want some kind of universal health care. You can call that an extreme position, but then you have to say that most Americans are political extremists.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
I really don't know. I've wondered for a long time just why it is that so many people think that she's (A) extremely bitchy and (B) very liberal. I've no idea about (A) -- and, frankly, don't care -- but (B) is demonstrably false.

That's what intrigues me about her potential candidacy though. She may just be smart and ruthless enough to overcome the fact that, for whatever reasons, a lot of people simply don't like her. I like that idea, I must say. As much as I dislike cynical pandering to interest groups, which she's clearly guilty of, I'm even less fond of this weird tendency people have for voting on the basis of likability. It's unforgivably stupid.
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I agree about the likability, and I know that the entertainment of watching cons literally explode, if she's President, will be a great show. But, I still want someone more liberal than Hillary.
 
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