Warming Up to Hillary (Sort of)

Darla said:
Majorities in this country now want some kind of universal health care. You can call that an extreme position, but then you have to say that most Americans are political extremists.
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No, I call that particular program extreme. I promote a regional single-payer system. You assume a position from me again, and as every time in the past you have done this, you are again wrong. Each time you have done that you have always been wrong. Do you ever learn from the past?
 
Damocles said:
No, I call that particular program extreme. I promote a regional single-payer system. You assume a position from me again, and as every time in the past you have done this, you are again wrong. Each time you have done that you have always been wrong. Do you ever learn from the past?
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Actually I do learn from the past. Once, I got myself involved with a conservative, and when I decided that I didn't want to be involved with him anymore, he said that if I didn't come to where he was he was going to shoot himself. And I asked, well, what if I do come there? And he said, then I'm gonig to shoot myself in front of you. So I thought I'd rather skip the show, and didn't go. (of course, he did not shoot himself, though, I can think of bigger wasts of bullets) And I have never dated a conservative again, though, honestly, that's not the sole reason. So, if you think I don't learn from my mistakes, I'd say that shows how wrong YOU are. lol

Anyway, the point is, I have no idea how extreme her proposal was, but I think anything she would come up with now, would be far simpler.
 
Darla said:
Actually I do learn from the past. Once, I got myself involved with a conservative, and when I decided that I didn't want to be involved with him anymore, he said that if I didn't come to where he was he was going to shoot himself. And I asked, well, what if I do come there? And he said, then I'm gonig to shoot myself in front of you. So I thought I'd rather skip the show, and didn't go. (of course, he did not shoot himself, though, I can think of bigger wasts of bullets) And I have never dated a conservative again, though, honestly, that's not the sole reason. So, if you think I don't learn from my mistakes, I'd say that shows how wrong YOU are. lol

Anyway, the point is, I have no idea how extreme her proposal was, but I think anything she would come up with now, would be far simpler.
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I was giving my opinion on where, "Hillary isn't moderate" comes from. That Healthcare "program" had some 11 different ways a patient could actually go to jail for going to a different doctor than the one assigned. Also, the doctor seeing that patient could also have been sent to jail.

It was nothing even close to considering a half-way thought towards moderate. In fact, it had to consider using "m"s in the document as, you know, that slippery slope. You start using "m"s and suddenly somebody is spelling moderate in front of you!
 
Superfreak said:
I love the fact that many of you seem snowed under by the belief that Hillary is a moderate. SHE IS NOT BILL. He was a moderate. She is far to the left. Just because she is playing the role of moderate to try to get elected doesn't mean she is ACTUALLY a moderate. She will be detrimental to our trade agreements, she will do everything in her power to bring back hillarycare, she will be every bit as divisive as Bush has been and the markets will not like it if she becomes President.
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You need to ask the Left what we think of her. She's far from being on the Left and she's further to the Right than Bill.

NOBODY that is on the "left" voted for the mindless war on Iraq.

Consider it a litmus test.

64% of Americans want universal healthcare so she wouldn't be proposing anything radical there.

I all we cared about was who the markets wanted to be president, why vote? Just let them decide.
 
Damo I find that every hard to believe could you link us up to those facts?

It sounds like Newt propaganda to me.
 
Poll: The Politics Of Health Care
March 1, 2007
CBS News/New York Times Poll
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/opinion/polls/main2528357.shtml

SHOULD GOVERNMENT GUARANTEE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR ALL?

YES -- 64%
No --- 27%

Americans Favour Universal Health Care
May 12, 2007
Opinion Research Corporation Poll

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - A vast majority of people in the United States voice support for a universal health care system, according to a poll by Opinion Research Corporation released by CNN. 64 per cent of respondents think the government should provide a national health insurance program for all citizens, even if it leads to higher taxes.

In addition, 73 per cent of respondents believe the federal administration should at least provide national health insurance to all American children under the age of 18, regardless of economic implications.
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/15715
 
Michael Moore called Hillary "a sellout".

She draws boos and hisses from liberal activists almost everywhere she goes.

Not only is she not a liberal, neither is the Democratic Party. Real liberals within the party get shunned and runover.
 
blackascoal said:
Michael Moore called Hillary "a sellout".

She draws boos and hisses from liberal activists almost everywhere she goes.

Not only is she not a liberal, neither is the Democratic Party. Real liberals within the party get shunned and runover.
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Exactly. In my party (Green) she's anathema. I wouldn't be able to show my face at a meeting if I admit that I might vote for her.

Well, that's a bit of an overstatement, but not much of one. :)

She gets called "too liberal" by people who've no clue what a real liberal is.
 
That Healthcare "program" had some 11 different ways a patient could actually go to jail for going to a different doctor than the one assigned. Also, the doctor seeing that patient could also have been sent to jail.



I've never heard this assertion outside of FreeRepublic and Newsmax.


Can you link me up with a credible non-partisan, mainstream source that demonstrates this?
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Exactly. In my party (Green) she's anathema. I wouldn't be able to show my face at a meeting if I admit that I might vote for her.

Well, that's a bit of an overstatement, but not much of one. :)

She gets called "too liberal" by people who've no clue what a real liberal is.
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To many cons all who disagree with them are Liberals.....
 
Desh said:
Damo I find that every hard to believe could you link us up to those facts?

It sounds like Newt propaganda to me.
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I'm sure it was. I do know that they actually quoted the relevant terms and fines in the bill. But it is over 1000 pages. I'll see what I can find that has that in it.

I was very uncomfortable with it. Government managed HMOs were exceedingly inefficient.

Her current proposal is much smaller and simpler. You should consider that Newt and Hillary have agreement in this current plan, not complete agreement but definitely agreements are there. Hillary and Newt are not exactly hating each other nowadays.
 
Desh said:
http://tinyurl.com/27ewp2


It seems alot of Drs supported Hils plan , why would they do that if they could go to jail?

No one was going to go to jail under her plan.
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There were a lot of doctors that did not support it because of many different reasons. Just saying "a lot of doctors supported her plan" doesn't change what it actually proposed. It was a huge bureaucratic nightmare.
 
Hil isnt my first choice but I damn well will vote for her over any R that is out there.

It very often a choice of less offensive.

Clinton was the only vote I truely felt good about.

He didnt get every thing I wanted done but he was still the best in my adult lifetime.
 
You should consider that Newt and Hillary have agreement in this current plan, not complete agreement but definitely agreements are there. Hillary and Newt are not exactly hating each other nowadays.

Yes, another reason why it's so obvious what a "leftist" she is. Maybe they are planning to put poor kids in orphanages. That's big on the leftist wish list you know.
 
"What does the actual voting record show? Bush Tax cuts? Voted for. "

No she voted against.

"Iraq War Authorization? Voted for."

True.

"Dedicated NAFTA "free" trader, in spite of recent vote against CAFTA. "

Calling major bullshit here. She is NOT a dedicated free trader. Bill was. She will continue to vote against these free trade deals.

"Voted against all iraq timetable withdrawls, until recently."

That doesn't mean she is a moderate. She is just calculating that doing so would make her appear "weak" and thus she wants to straddle the fence on the issue.

She is (IMO) to the right of Edwards and obviously Kucinich... but she is a lot further to the left than Bill was. Hillarycare will be reborn if she is elected and we will end up with another mess like the pill bill, medicare and medicaid.
 
Darla said:
You should consider that Newt and Hillary have agreement in this current plan, not complete agreement but definitely agreements are there. Hillary and Newt are not exactly hating each other nowadays.

Yes, another reason why it's so obvious what a "leftist" she is. Maybe they are planning to put poor kids in orphanages. That's big on the leftist wish list you know.
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Also remember I was answering where "she is a leftist" comes from, not giving an opinion on whether she is a leftist herself, or commenting on her as a candidate.

That healthcare program definitely was not "moderate" by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Superfreak said:
"What does the actual voting record show? Bush Tax cuts? Voted for. "

No she voted against.

"Iraq War Authorization? Voted for."

True.

"Dedicated NAFTA "free" trader, in spite of recent vote against CAFTA. "

Calling major bullshit here. She is NOT a dedicated free trader. Bill was. She will continue to vote against these free trade deals.

"Voted against all iraq timetable withdrawls, until recently."

That doesn't mean she is a moderate. She is just calculating that doing so would make her appear "weak" and thus she wants to straddle the fence on the issue.

She is (IMO) to the right of Edwards and obviously Kucinich... but she is a lot further to the left than Bill was. Hillarycare will be reborn if she is elected and we will end up with another mess like the pill bill, medicare and medicaid.
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Calling major bullshit here. She is NOT a dedicated free trader. Bill was. She will continue to vote against these free trade deals.


You'd be wrong on that:

-US-Oman Free Trade Deal: Voted YES
-CAFTA: Voted NO
-US-Chile Free Trade Deal: Voted YES
-US-Singapore Free Trade Deal: Voted YES

http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=55463&type=category&category=63&go.x=5&go.y=12



This is why I'm constantly checking Cons assertions. ;). Facts matter.

The fact is, more often than not, Hillary support NAFTA-style "free" trade agreements.

Which makes her far more of a centrist, than some whacked out pro-union leftwing Democrat.
 
You should date unstable losers, you xing off half the potential boyfriends out their by blaiming conservative for you choice of a mental case.
What there are no liberal mental cases. LOFL
 
Cypress, my problem with her is that she DID NOT support the free trade agreements prior to becoming a senator. I do not believe she has changed heart... I believe she is trying to appear as a moderate. She is voting yes on the trade agreements that are going to pass with or without her. Take a look at the trade agreements... The ones she voted for had a 60+ vote majority. The ones she didn't... were the close votes.

Perhaps you can explain why she would vote for free trade agreement with Oman and not with Central America?

She is trying to appear moderate.
 
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