Warrantless Wiretapping

Darla said:
Oh no, not from this day forth. From this day forth you just say, "are you shitting me, taking that car without paying for it is illegal? Man, why do they have them on the lots with big signs on them saying "try me" then? well, my bad" and you are free to go on to do something else you didn't "realize" was illegal.
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You too are confusing Criminal law with Civil law and being deliberately obtuse. Ignoring any civics class you ever took and what checks and balances are and how it works....

Pretending that it is all the same when you know that it is not.

Anyway, in a Criminal case in almost every instance that is exactly what they do. They say, "I didn't do it, and if you find I did I will tell you some reason to give me less of a sentence."
 
Damocles said:
As I said before, if you really believe it is impeachable talk to the Congress that simply voted him back the power with FISA oversight...

Congress can quite literally impeach for anything "misdemeanors" and "high crimes" are not exactly what people think they are. There is a reason that they simply voted him back the power, Ds included, and it isn't because he should be impeached for this one.
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Oh I know why it is.

It's because the Bushies termed the illegal wiretapping, "the terrorist surveillance program". And at first, no one went along with it. Then, over the months, you noticed that all of the media, newspapers, pundits, newscasters, all of them, had dropped the words "warrantless wiretapping" for the most part, and were parroting the adminstration's "THE TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM". I often reflect on how they must laugh in the White House. I imagine Dick telling George "and you said I could never get them parroting that line, remember George?" And George laughing and saying "You got me again Dick, they swallowed it alright".

And so then, the Dems were not going to make noise about prosecuting anyone for 'THE TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM' because Americans no longer knew it was about warrantless wiretapping, which, used to be a big deal in this country, you might remember some fuss in the 70's? No, now Americans think of it as eavesdropping on terrorists, or as George likes to say "if a terrorist calls someone we want to know what they're saying".

And the R's were already readying the ads "Democrats prosecute officials for listening to terrorists phone conversations!' "Democrats say, we will protect the rights of Terrorists!"

And so, it came to pass that illegal wiretapping was no longer a big deal in this country.
 
Hmm after working most of my adult life in telops I seem to recall that wiretapping is illegal without a court order.
 
Darla said:
Oh I know why it is.

It's because the Bushies termed the illegal wiretapping, "the terrorist surveillance program". And at first, no one went along with it. Then, over the months, you noticed that all of the media, newspapers, pundits, newscasters, all of them, had dropped the words "warrantless wiretapping" for the most part, and were parroting the adminstration's "THE TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM". I often reflect on how they must laugh in the White House. I imagine Dick telling George "and you said I could never get them parroting that line, remember George?" And George laughing and saying "You got me again Dick, they swallowed it alright".

And so then, the Dems were not going to make noise about prosecuting anyone for 'THE TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM' because Americans no longer knew it was about warrantless wiretapping, which, used to be a big deal in this country, you might remember some fuss in the 70's? No, now Americans think of it as eavesdropping on terrorists, or as George likes to say "if a terrorist calls someone we want to know what they're saying".

And the R's were already readying the ads "Democrats prosecute officials for listening to terrorists phone conversations!' "Democrats say, we will protect the rights of Terrorists!"

And so, it came to pass that illegal wiretapping was no longer a big deal in this country.
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It is because it is procedural. One side believed that it was a Foreign Relations issue dealing only with spying on two parties outside the US, the other side believed that because it passed through a node in NY that it needed a warrant. The courts ruled with the one side over the other, the procedure changed, laws were passed to ensure the practice could continue because even the other side saw value in listening into conversations taking place in two separate nations that were not the US that may be planning attacks....

That is all.

It is how the system works, even when it works against your side.
 
I do note that this particular ruling has nothing to do with conversations ending/beginning in the US, nor does the law written cover it.
 
Anyway, if the cops are caught wiretapping somebody and the courts find it illegal the cops don't go to jail, the evidence gathered is simply thrown out and all evidence that may have been associated because of the fruit of the poison tree.

This is the same in this issue. It is a procedural ruling, not a criminal conviction.
 
uscitizen said:
yep , wouldn't Gonzo had to have pursued the other domestic wiretapping issue ?
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No, they could have forced a Special Prosecutor if they believed it was a violation of criminal law, otherwise any party harmed would have to bring suit.
 
Damocles said:
Anyway, if the cops are caught wiretapping somebody and the courts find it illegal the cops don't go to jail, the evidence gathered is simply thrown out and all evidence that may have been associated because of the fruit of the poison tree.

This is the same in this issue. It is a procedural ruling, not a criminal conviction.
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Whatever.
 
And this was domestic wiretapping.

I can't argue this anymore, it's too frustrating. I guess it's why you guys always win. You'll keep going and going.

He used the nsa to wiretAP AMERICAN CITIZENS.

It is illegal.

That's it.
 
Darla said:
And this was domestic wiretapping.

I can't argue this anymore, it's too frustrating. I guess it's why you guys always win. You'll keep going and going.

He used the nsa to wiretAP AMERICAN CITIZENS.

It is illegal.

That's it.
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Did you read this story? This ruling has nothing to do with calls that began or ended domestically, it is only for those that began and ended in other countries that passed through nodes in NYC and other places on the East Coast.

So this ruling isn't covering what you are upset about here.
 
The judge, whose name could not be learned, concluded early this year that the government had overstepped its authority in attempting to broadly surveil communications between two locations overseas that are passed through routing stations in the United States, according to two other government sources familiar with the decision.
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This ruling seems, according to this story, to only cover calls that began and ended outside the US and passed through nodes in the US.
 
uscitizen said:
Mine and Darlas issue is outside of this issue.
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Which is another of my points.

This is the one that they used nodes in the US along with software to draw forward conversations of interest in calls that began and ended outside the US. This isn't the Domestic Wiretapping issue. They are different.
 
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