"We are fighting against the genocide of the Russian-speaking population" - Rus. Com.

[Taichiliberal]

I think it's likely that that article actually demonstrates that Gaetz knows more about the miltary situation in Ukraine prior to Trump's arrival than most. Your article points out the rather fine distinction that the Obama administration didn't provide -lethal- military aid, but did provide military aid such as "vehicles, patrol boats, body armor and night-vision goggles, as well as humanitarian assistance." I did know that the Obama administration provided -some- aid, but I wasn't aware that some of it was military, albeit non lethal. In all the nit picking, the most important point was lost, namely that there's a big difference between providing non lethal military aid and lethal military aid. Had the U.S. stuck to only providing non lethal military aid, I think it's quite possible that Ukraine may not have started their renewed military assault on the Donbass region that ultimately appears to have drawn Russia into the military fray.



I never said Gaetz doesn't have flaws.

Sorry, but you can't gloss over the documented fact that Gaetz essentially talks out of both sides of his face on this subject....the record shows this. His "knowledge" is no more than the average citizen who pays attention to more than one news source can obtain. Bottom line, whatever is more opportunistic for Gaetz to garner favor from the MAGA voting base is what he will bullhorn.....contradictions non-withstanding.

 

[Taichiliberal]

No, you post some links with some cryptic explanation as to why you're posting them. This style of posting strongly suggests you have little to no interest in persuading your ideological opponent, which definitely seems true in this case.

We already did that dance....and you keep stepping on your own feet. You're not stupid, and neither are the objective readers. The chronology of the posts clearly shows you making an assertion and I providing links to valid documentation that contradicts/disproves such. That you REFUSE to read them does not change that fact. Your proud willful ignorance has no rational or logical defense...but you will stubbornly repeat it to the point of insipidness. And on that, I don't have to respond...just watch you dig yourself deeper. Carry on.

 

[Scott]

You seem to be under the impression that Ukraine is a united country. While it has had divides for a while, those divides became lethal after Euromaidan in 2014 and the Ukrainian civil war started. As I've stated in the past, it seems highly likely that Russia started its military operation when it did due to a renewed military assault by the western Ukrainian military a few days prior to Russia's operation. So while I can certainly agree that the Kyiv power brokers were probably upset that Russia wouldn't let western Ukraine massacre eastern Ukrainians in peace, I think it's a safe bet that eastern Ukrainians were grateful. Which would help explain the landslide wins in the Eastern region referendums to join Russia.

No country is united. They all have sects.

I don't think that sects is the right word here, but I certainly agree that no country is -completely united. However, there comes a point where the divisions are so strong that a civil war ensues. That clearly happened long before Russia started its military operation in Ukraine.

However, people that get their homes bombed and their families killed seem to agree that the aggressor should pay.

Certainly. So where is your concern for the eastern Ukrainians, who have had their homes bombed and their families killed since 2014?

Putin controlled the elections.

In what way?

There are plenty of Russians who want Putin out and the war stopped, but they are afraid to say it in public. 1420 interviews Russians on the street, and the fear of saying what they believe is palpable.

What is this 1420 you speak of?

It seems that older people are on Putin's side.

I've certainly read that they are more on Putin's side. They remember the last time that Russia allowed the west to steamroll them after Perestroika and they're not interested in a repeat.

Ukraine has the right to make its own decisions.

Indeed. What you fail to take into account is that a significant part of eastern Ukrainians did just that 8 years ago, creating the Donbass republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. The problem is that the Ukrainian government refused to let them separate, resulting in an 8 year war wherein thousands of eastern Ukrainians were killed simply for wanting to have the right to "make their own decisions", as you say.

 

[Scott]

I think it's likely that that article actually demonstrates that Gaetz knows more about the miltary situation in Ukraine prior to Trump's arrival than most. Your article points out the rather fine distinction that the Obama administration didn't provide -lethal- military aid, but did provide military aid such as "vehicles, patrol boats, body armor and night-vision goggles, as well as humanitarian assistance." I did know that the Obama administration provided -some- aid, but I wasn't aware that some of it was military, albeit non lethal. In all the nit picking, the most important point was lost, namely that there's a big difference between providing non lethal military aid and lethal military aid. Had the U.S. stuck to only providing non lethal military aid, I think it's quite possible that Ukraine may not have started their renewed military assault on the Donbass region that ultimately appears to have drawn Russia into the military fray.

I never said Gaetz doesn't have flaws.

Sorry, but you can't gloss over the documented fact that Gaetz essentially talks out of both sides of his face on this subject....the record shows this. His "knowledge" is no more than the average citizen who pays attention to more than one news source can obtain. Bottom line, whatever is more opportunistic for Gaetz to garner favor from the MAGA voting base is what he will bullhorn.....contradictions non-withstanding.

You certainly have a very cynical view of Gaetz. My own observations of him suggest that he he's got some good traits and some bad ones. When it comes to the Ukraine war, he appears to be on the right track.

 

[Scott]

You can blow all the hot air you want, but the bottom line is the same.....I link information that factually dismisses your previous contention....

No, you post some links with some cryptic explanation as to why you're posting them. This style of posting strongly suggests you have little to no interest in persuading your ideological opponent, which definitely seems true in this case.

We already did that dance....and you keep stepping on your own feet. You're not stupid, and neither are the objective readers. The chronology of the posts clearly shows you making an assertion and I providing links to valid documentation that contradicts/disproves such.

No, you just put up some links with little explanation as to why you were doing so. It's what I'd call the lazy arguer's way- post a few links that you think contradicts/disproves something your ideological opponent says, perhaps offer a cryptic remark or 2 as to what exactly you believe the links will contradict/disprove and then be on your way. If you're just trying to persuade yourself that you've done your homework, I suppose that can work, but if you were submitting this as an assignment in a class, the teacher would give you an F without thinking about it.

 

[Nordberg]

I don't think that sects is the right word here, but I certainly agree that no country is -completely united. However, there comes a point where the divisions are so strong that a civil war ensues. That clearly happened long before Russia started its military operation in Ukraine.



Certainly. So where is your concern for the eastern Ukrainians, who have had their homes bombed and their families killed since 2014?



In what way?



What is this 1420 you speak of?



I've certainly read that they are more on Putin's side. They remember the last time that Russia allowed the west to steamroll them after Perestroika and they're not interested in a repeat.



Indeed. What you fail to take into account is that a significant part of eastern Ukrainians did just that 8 years ago, creating the Donbass republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. The problem is that the Ukrainian government refused to let them separate, resulting in an 8 year war wherein thousands of eastern Ukrainians were killed simply for wanting to have the right to "make their own decisions", as you say.

1420 is a man-in-the-street interview show on Utube. They ask people in Moscow and small towns political and social questions. It is the only place I have seen that gives a sense of what the people think, It has been on for about a year.. https://www.youtube.com/c/1420channel
Putin's election foes disappear, flee the country, or get oppressed. Putin cannot lose because he sets up the elections. He is not very popular among the middle age and younger. Old people mostly remember the past more fondly than they should. Russia does not have fair elections.

 

[Nordberg]

People who disagree with Putin die suddenly. https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-russians-fall-windows-putin-ukraine-war-1781790 Russian assassinations are well known too, even abroad. Putin is a dictator.

 

[Scott]

1420 is a man-in-the-street interview show on Utube. They ask people in Moscow and small towns political and social questions. It is the only place I have seen that gives a sense of what the people think, It has been on for about a year.. https://www.youtube.com/c/1420channel

Alright, thanks for the explanation.

Putin's election foes disappear, flee the country, or get oppressed. Putin cannot lose because he sets up the elections.

I definitely don't think that Putin is a saint, but I definitely don't agree that "Putin cannot lose". I think the main reason he hasn't been removed from power is because he has an aptitude of seeing where the political currents are in Russia. More than once, he has shown more restraint in Ukraine than other political figures. Perhaps the most dramatic example is when the Rada, which is Russia's congress, implored Putin to recognize the Donbass Republics right before Ukraine started its military assault on them. He initially declined to do so and only changed his mind after days of Ukraine conducting a massive campaign against it. Similarly, he briefly held back amid calls for a swift retaliation after Ukraine attacked the Crimean bridge before deciding that the winds for a strong retaliation was called for:

Putin allies are pushing for swift retaliation after an explosion on a key Crimean bridge delivered another humiliation for the Russian president | Business Insider

He is not very popular among the middle age and younger. Old people mostly remember the past more fondly than they should. Russia does not have fair elections.

Not sure where you're getting your breakdown, but I have heard that he is more popular amoung the older generation as well. That being said, his overall approval rating is pretty high right now, at over 80%:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/

Compare that to Biden's current approval rating that around half that, at 41%. More Americans -dissaprove- of Biden- his dissaproval rating is currently at 52%:

52% of Americans dissaprove of the president | reuters.com

 

[Scott]

People who disagree with Putin die suddenly. https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-russians-fall-windows-putin-ukraine-war-1781790 Russian assassinations are well known too, even abroad. Putin is a dictator.

I made this thread to provide evidence that this war was institigated by right wing forces in Ukraine, aided and abetted by the U.S. and other NATO countries and that some fighters on the Russian side are fighting for the survival of the ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine.

So we're getting off track here, but I'll follow for a bit. The U.S. has a long list of known assassinations and attempted assassinations, which they define as "targetted killings", including some heads of state:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations_by_the_United_States

Teapot, meet kettle.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

I made this thread to provide evidence that this war was institigated by right wing forces in Ukraine, aided and abetted by the U.S. and other NATO countries and that some fighters on the Russian side are fighting for the survival of the ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine.

So we're getting off track here, but I'll follow for a bit. The U.S. has a long list of known assassinations and attempted assassinations, which they define as "targetted killings", including some heads of state:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations_by_the_United_States

Teapot, meet kettle.

I suspect that if Damocles were to Traceroute your IP Address, It would Traceroute all the way to a TROLL FARM in St. Petersburg!

 

[Scott]

I suspect that if Damocles were to Traceroute your IP Address, It would Traceroute all the way to a TROLL FARM in St. Petersburg!

If all you're going to do is troll my threads, I'll add you to my thread ban list. You've been warned.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

If all you're going to do is troll my threads, I'll add you to my thread ban list. You've been warned.

You know how I stand on Russia, and you know how I stand on Russian sympathizers!

If you want to ban me, that is for you to choose.

 

[Scott]

You know how I stand on Russia, and you know how I stand on Russian sympathizers!

If you want to ban me, that is for you to choose.

Thanks for taking it gracefully anyway. I don't like banning people, but if they're just going to insult me, they're not contributing to the threads I make.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Thanks for taking it gracefully anyway. I don't like banning people, but if they're just going to insult me, they're not contributing to the threads I make.

What was your feeling about the Berlin Wall?
What was your feeling about the Breakup of the Soviet Union?
I mean what's next, do you think Putin should take back Eastern Germany?
What is the difference between Germany and the Ukraine, Latvia, or Georgia?
Should Putin invade all of the countries that declared their own Independence after the Breakup of the Soviet Union?

I just do not see your point!

Should the UK invade the United States and reclaim their territory here?

Should Mexico reclaim Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and California?

Would you side with the UK and Mexico if they did that?

 

[Nordberg]

I made this thread to provide evidence that this war was institigated by right wing forces in Ukraine, aided and abetted by the U.S. and other NATO countries and that some fighters on the Russian side are fighting for the survival of the ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine.

So we're getting off track here, but I'll follow for a bit. The U.S. has a long list of known assassinations and attempted assassinations, which they define as "targetted killings", including some heads of state:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinations_by_the_United_States

Teapot, meet kettle.

This is not about our assassinations or crimes. Why didn't you bring up the Romans who used it as a way to gain power? I am not proud of our history, but it had s nothing to do with Putin who uses it now.
He has people killed who exiled themselves and fled to foreign lands. Putin had them poisoned or they fell out of a window. It is odd that people who show a sliver of opposition to Putin fall out of windows.
You went way off the track. We were talking about why Putin is a dictator and his elections are not real.

 

[Scott]

What was your feeling about the Berlin Wall?

Glad it came down.

What was your feeling about the Breakup of the Soviet Union?

I wasn't there, but from what I've heard of those who lived in it at the time, some people were happy about it, others weren't.

I mean what's next, do you think Putin should take back Eastern Germany?

From everything I've seen, Putin didn't even want to start his military operation in Ukraine. If he had, he could have started it a lot sooner than now. I imagine you're aware that there's been a civil war in Ukraine for the last 8 years, wherein Ukraine's army has been killing ethnic Russians and Russian speakers there for much of those 8 years. Russia's congress had already asked him to recognize the Donbass Republics days before he finally decided to do it on February 21st.

What is the difference between Germany and the Ukraine, Latvia, or Georgia?

There are many, but for the purposes of this conversation, Germany, Latvia and Georgia haven't been killing eastern Ukrainians of the ethnic Russian and Russian speaking varieties for the past 8 years.

Should Putin invade all of the countries that declared their own Independence after the Breakup of the Soviet Union?

Again, Putin's shown no interest in starting a military operation in any country other than Ukraine, for the reasons I've already outlined.

Should the UK invade the United States and reclaim their territory here?

Should Mexico reclaim Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and California?

Would you side with the UK and Mexico if they did that?

I think we can agree that the UK has no intention of invading the U.S., and Mexico has no intention of reclaiming the U.S. states you mention, all for good reasons.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post

Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
I think it's likely that that article actually demonstrates that Gaetz knows more about the miltary situation in Ukraine prior to Trump's arrival than most. Your article points out the rather fine distinction that the Obama administration didn't provide -lethal- military aid, but did provide military aid such as "vehicles, patrol boats, body armor and night-vision goggles, as well as humanitarian assistance." I did know that the Obama administration provided -some- aid, but I wasn't aware that some of it was military, albeit non lethal. In all the nit picking, the most important point was lost, namely that there's a big difference between providing non lethal military aid and lethal military aid. Had the U.S. stuck to only providing non lethal military aid, I think it's quite possible that Ukraine may not have started their renewed military assault on the Donbass region that ultimately appears to have drawn Russia into the military fray.

I never said Gaetz doesn't have flaws.

Sorry, but you can't gloss over the documented fact that Gaetz essentially talks out of both sides of his face on this subject....the record shows this. His "knowledge" is no more than the average citizen who pays attention to more than one news source can obtain. Bottom line, whatever is more opportunistic for Gaetz to garner favor from the MAGA voting base is what he will bullhorn.....contradictions non-withstanding.

You certainly have a very cynical view of Gaetz. My own observations of him suggest that he he's got some good traits and some bad ones. When it comes to the Ukraine war, he appears to be on the right track.

You already stated such....doesn't change the documented accuracy of what I previously stated.

 

[Damocles]

This is a bit like calling English a different language than "American". Ukrainian is just an older version of Russian. They fully understand me when I speak with them and I understand them. I didn't need to learn a whole language, just the vocative case which is a holdover from the older version of Russian. Even before I started to pick up on the vocative word endings they were able to understand me and I them. They pronounce 'o' as o all the time while in Russia the o is pronounced o when accented in the word and as an 'a' when unaccented. So Okno in Ukrainian would be pronounced with two long o sounds while the same in Russian it is pronounced like Ahknoh though spelled the same.

Written Ukrainian uses the older Cyrillic alphabet which was shortened by Stalin (I think, if not him Lenin) during his "leadership ".

 

[Taichiliberal]

This is a bit like calling English a different language than "American". Ukrainian is just an older version of Russian. They fully understand me when I speak with them and I understand them. I didn't need to learn a whole language, just the vocative case which is a holdover from the older version of Russian. Even before I started to pick up on the vocative word endings they were able to understand me and I them. They pronounce 'o' as o all the time while in Russia the o is pronounced o when accented in the word and as an 'a' when unaccented. So Okno in Ukrainian would be pronounced with two long o sounds while the same in Russian it is pronounced like Ahknoh though spelled the same.

Written Ukrainian uses the older Cyrillic alphabet which was shortened by Stalin (I think, if not him Lenin) during his "leadership ".

Your point?