Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
MAGAts only see what they want to see. If Trump says all those who died in ICE custody were "enemies of the state" and/or violent gang members, they accept it without question.
We now have solid proof that after Trump and Project 2025, the future of the GOP is Nazism
- Thread starter signalmankenneth
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Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Don't worry; your Orange Jesus is already well on the way to doing so with the use of ICE and military occupation of US cities. All MAGAts should be happy.
I don’t understand why that makes it okay. Those people are still humans and we still have laws.
cawacko
Well-known member
Abuse or incompetence in government agencies is serious and deserves to be called out. But that’s not the same thing as laying the groundwork for Nazism. Every administration, Republican and Democrat, has had human rights failures and bad policies.
The difference is we still have courts, a free press, and elections that call out bad actions and hold people accountable. In Nazi Germany, none of that existed once power was consolidated. That’s why the comparison doesn’t fit.
Fuck you very much for that, UM.
The comparison fits like a fine glove.
What it doesn't fit is YOUR version of what is best for America.
The Germans who supported Hitler in the mid 20th century had that same problem. Hey, I acknowledge that they resolved it. I'm sure we can, too. Except for the nuclear arsenal factor.
cawacko
Well-known member
You’re kind of proving my point, Frank. Every disagreement now turns into “you must support fascism.” All that does is shut down any discussion.
Here's the ultimate irony to me. We keep hearing 'we're losing our democracy'. To me, democracies are messy and people aren't always going to agree. But for a democracy to thrive there has to be discussion. Today very few want that, they want to stay in their echo chamber with their tribe and shut down any discussion by calling people Nazi's, fascists, etc. That's not good.
Have I ever wished death on anyone?
It was a good day when Bin Laden died, but I would not say I wished death upon him. Sadly, his death was the best outcome, so that would be a borderline case.
Tbird19482
Verified User
And do you think Trump cares about LAWS?
He is ruling this country by Presidential orders, just like a KING or DICTATOR would.
Trump doesn't give a shit about laws or the CONSTITUTION.
QP!
Verified User
Don't worry; your Orange Jesus is already well on the way to doing so with the use of ICE and military occupation of US cities. All MAGAts should be happy.
And Trump is actively aided and abetted by the Supreme Court, with Kavanaugh leading the charge saying it is not a big deal if ICE stops even American citizens who have committed no crime and only look a certain way (brown of black) and demand they SHOW PAPERS or face physical assault and arrest.
Kavanaugh scoffed at forcing citizens to show papers as 'harmless' while ignoring the Constitution specifically prohibits such demands of citizens who have committed no crimes.
This was oft cited by the Republican South as to why they needed so many guns. The fear an over bearing gov't demanding law abiding citizens submit to checks and accept gov't violence done to them when they did no crime, because they would not show PAPERS. You have a whole "Free Man' spin off movement in the south tht believes the gov't has to leave them completely alone if they did not break any law.
QP!
Verified User
The above makes you wonder if a Dem Potus comes in next and declares via EO that we have a Gun Emergency in the US that is the main form of payment being sent to cartel who send back drugs, and he is sending in ICE and national guard from Blue States to confiscate the guns, how fast this Supreme Court would act and block that. Maybe almost as fast as when Biden was trying to forgive Student Loans, based on the legislative authority COngress had already given. But the SC saw the danger in that and stopped it immediately before the case could be fully heard, unlike with Trump now, who they over rode the underlying courts who said this was a clear Constitutional violation but the SC said 'nah...let him do it and we will hear the case eventually and decide'.
This is not incompetence. ICE agents specifically hide their identities, and destroy records to avoid being punished for their crimes. They are now claiming to have destroyed all the records of who they have arrested. They have held some American citizens for months without any access to the outside world. No one knows who they have deported to foreign hellhole prisons.
This will not get called out. It is the new normal.
Germany had courts, a free press, and elections that called out bad actions and held people accountable. It took a decade of actions to undermine all that, because Germany's liberal democracy was still new. It would take longer for us.
What disturbs me is that you seem fine with the baby steps of undermining it all. As long as we are not at the end of the journey, you are fine with us being at the beginning of the journey. The problem with that is once we lose all the protections of our freedoms, there is no way to protect our freedoms.
American citizens in Chicago had hand grenades thrown into their homes. ICE then arrested them without warrants, or any evidence of a crime. They were illegally held for days without contact with the outside world. When they finally got to court, ICE claims they lost all the records of who was involved with the raid.
But the people involved were Black, so I suppose it is OK with you. Whites are not being attacked.
It is the weirdest thing I have ever seen. They assume that they know more than the experts. People study a field for decades, and they assume they know more about it. They assume every job they have never done is easy. They assume there are easy answers to any complex problem, and that faith will make anything true.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
They put the moron in the phrase "MAGA moron".
QP!
Verified User
This is all being deliberately orchestrated by The Federalist Society and their hand picked SC Justices.
It was clear that majority minority rule in America was at the tipping point and many, even in Republican circles recognized it as inevitable with the shifting demographics.
To stop that reality the only way is to basically destroy the Constitution and the premise of a gov't 'for the people, by the people' and to replace that with Corporations and dark money having equal (greater) voice in elections, enabling extreme partisan gerrymandering, and to destroy the Voting Act legislation.
By doing the above you can destroy the power of 'one person, one vote' and 'citizens picking their gov't' and replace it with those in gov't and holding current powers, picking the Constituents who will have outsized value in voting. while basically nullifying the votes of massive swaths of people (brown and black).
It is this extreme gerrymandering that demands Politicians now pander to the extremes on the right and left and not the center, meaning they must play to the worst of human nature and not the best. Simply getting rid of extreme gerrymandering would require most politicians campaign to the center as you could not create 'safe districts' inmost areas compromised of big voting blocks on the extremes. And we would see the extreme polarization of people diminish and things calm down substantially.
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QP!
Verified User
Why did the Republican party embrace the above, when they had another pretty clear path to rule, as the Dem party, was losing it hold on its base?
That answer was racism. The Republican party had a pretty easy 'big tent' path to establishing long term rule. Embrace the rising Latino and black vote already moving to them (via Religious and other 'conservative' beliefs) but for the upper white echelon of the GOP embracing and handing over GOP rule to increasingly Latino and Black party members was not something they could stomach.
Instead they chose the nuclear option of trying to destroy the Constitution and America, as it exists today and reform it as a more fascistic State where they hope to keep a lock on power and thus rule indefinitely as the ones who will always set the voting rules.
That answer was racism. The Republican party had a pretty easy 'big tent' path to establishing long term rule. Embrace the rising Latino and black vote already moving to them (via Religious and other 'conservative' beliefs) but for the upper white echelon of the GOP embracing and handing over GOP rule to increasingly Latino and Black party members was not something they could stomach.
Instead they chose the nuclear option of trying to destroy the Constitution and America, as it exists today and reform it as a more fascistic State where they hope to keep a lock on power and thus rule indefinitely as the ones who will always set the voting rules.
QP!
Verified User
Robert Kennedy Jr made a statement such as 'time to give the "Experts" a break', as his way of saying he (his gov't department) does not value the views of experts and will seek their information elsewhere.
I was begging for a reporter to challenge him by asking if he felt the same away about an Airplane or car his family was about to take a trip in that had severe engine problems.
Would he want the "experts" (engineers and mechanics) to step aside and allow him and his internet buddies to deal with the problem?
I think, he would of course say 'No', while trying to spin the human body is somehow a less important and complicated machine and thus does not need "experts".
At no point did I say...or intimate...that you must support fascism.
What I said, in my agreement, was that what Trump is doing fits what Hitler (read that the Nazis) did on their way to power.
And it is so. Those of us concerned are worried for our Republic. It requires us to oppose what we see as a move to autocracy with as much gusto as possible.
You seem to think Trump is something special. So defend him...while we oppose him and his supporters with as much vigor as we can.
Perhaps that is so, but I am not one of them.
I implore you to speak out as loudly as you want. And I intend to speak out as loudly as possible in opposition. Lots of us will. Stop suggesting that we stop doing so.
THEY have control of the Senate, the House of Representatives, the presidency, and the favor of the SCOTUS. THEY may already have won...or lost, as they will find out if they have won. IF THEY have won we all have lost...including everyone else in the world. An autocracy with as much power as we have...and with losers like Trump, Vance, and Johnson as "leaders"...all the other countries of the world as as deep in the shit as we.
What a disgusting mess it is that we have so many people willing to support what is happening.
cawacko
Well-known member
You’re misunderstanding me, Frank. I’m not saying people shouldn’t speak out. I’m saying there’s a difference between discussion and trying to shut people up by labeling them Nazis, fascists etc. That kind of thing just shuts people down instead of getting anywhere.
Speak out all you want, but discussion goes both ways.