What about freedom FROM religion?

[Ross Dolan]

the author is apparently not up to date on CofE.

Church of England still does not treat LGBTQ people as equals with other congregants.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I'm all for freedom from religion.

Good. We are in agreement there.

Would you consider the warmists to be a religion or is that just a social opinion to you?

Warmists opine that climate change caused by human activity is occurring. In no way do I consider that a religion.

What about the trans movement...social phenomenon or religion?

What is "the trans movement?" Whatever it is...I seriously doubt it is a religion. If you mean people who think some people can choose to transition from one sex to another...it definitely is not a religion.

How about no tolerance for intolerance? Is that just social expression or cultish behavior?

Whatever it is, it is not a religion.

 

[Ross Dolan]

here we go, the infantile ranting of a liberal who isn't getting his way after having his arguments dismissed as having no merit.

There is no way that my arguments have no merit. I actually expect some of you morons to "dismiss" my arguments as having no merit"...so I would not rant.

I enjoy it. If someone insists on showing their stupidity (as you do) I say: Give that guy a bigger megaphone.

 

[Litmus]

There is no way that my arguments have no merit. I actually expect some of you morons to "dismiss" my arguments as having no merit"...so I would not rant.

I enjoy it. If someone insists on showing their stupidity (as you do) I say: Give that guy a bigger megaphone.

your entire argument is a strawman from the beginning.

nobody is anti-gay.

we're against stuff with the kids in that area.

doing surgeries to fulfill a body dysmorphic psychiatric compulsion is like encouraging a bulimic to go on a diet. and it's even worse to do it to children.

 

[Cypress]

This does not mean atheists were somehow NOT against slavery. But we weren't allowed to be open and visible in the past. There's even some modes of thought that maybe Lincoln was an atheist (or at least not necessarily a Christian). He apparently was open in his youth about his lack of faith.

(Just trying to keep logical consistency to the debate point)

There were very few atheists in 1860, and they certainly weren't the tip of the spear in the organized opposition to slavery and racism.

Lincoln was not an atheist. Looking at the broad span of his life, he was more like a deist in the mold of Jefferson.

Right up until the last two or three years of his life, Lincoln was not a particularly powerful voice against slavery and racism. He openly thought blacks were inferior to whites, and his main interest going Into the 1860 election, was to stop the spread of slavery to the territories, not to end the practice where it existed. Preservation of the Union was his primary goal at the onset of the civil war.

In terms of a strictly moral force in the opposition to slavery, I would not compare Lincoln to William Lloyd Garrison or Frederick Douglass. Though to his credit, Lincoln personally thought slavery was a moral wrong.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

There were very few atheists in 1860, and they certainly weren't the tip of the spear in the organized opposition to slavery and racism.

I don't know how one could know that. It's like saying there were very few gay people in the 1860's because no one talked about it. They have always been with us. Atheists have ALWAYS been with us. And it is logically impossible to say that they were somehow not also in the vanguard if no one knew they were there (even in the churches themselves!)

I will readily agree that the organized religions in the Northern States were far more active and did far and away the most to get slavery removed and I hope we all agree that the churches in the South often relied on the same Bible to support the holding of slaves.

Lincoln was not an atheist. Looking at the broad span of his life, he was more like a deist in the mold of Jefferson.

That may or may not be the case. It is reasonable to assume a deist type approach but, by the same token, it isn't a stretch to assume the guy who did these things may not have been a believer at all:

“He would actually be aggressive on the subject of unbelief,” Guelzo says. “More than one observer who knew him from those days said that Lincoln could shock people.” For example, he might say the Bible was just an ordinary book, or that Jesus Christ was an illegitimate child. “By the time he moves into his late 20s and early 30s, he has started to temper that because he realizes that doesn’t get him very far politically.”(SOURCE)

(Emphasis added)

Right up until the last two or three years of his life, Lincoln was not a particularly powerful voice against slavery and racism. He openly thought blacks were inferior to whites

And I think it is reasonable to assume, given the times, that even many of the abolitionists in the churches felt superior to blacks. This was not an uncommon belief even among those who opposed slavery.

In general I don't disagree with the idea that many Christians in the 19th century had come around to belief that slavery was a moral wrong (after centuries of having slaves in the Northern colonies/states) and I think it is quite important to remember that the same religious text and same religious belief system was also leveraged in defense of that moral wrong.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

There is no way that my arguments have no merit. I actually expect some of you morons to "dismiss" my arguments as having no merit"...so I would not rant.

I enjoy it. If someone insists on showing their stupidity (as you do) I say: Give that guy a bigger megaphone.

your argument has NO MERIT!!!!!! you are guaranteed to choose a religion, or not choose a religion. you are NOT guaranteed to be free from having to deal with any religion, much like you have NO RIGHT to NOT be offended by something........end of story. now go cry some more that the world is mean to you.

 

[Cypress]

.... .

Good thing you mentioned professor Allen C. Guelzo, because I took a video course with him on the life of Abraham Lincoln. These are the class notes from lecture 4:

"(Lincoln) believed in the existence of God, but not the god of Christianity or any other formal religion, though there was never any question in Lincoln's mind that this God was immensely powerful, so powerful that individual human wills really amounted to nothing."

^ That's not atheism.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Good thing you mentioned professor Allen C. Guelzo, because I took a video course with him on the life of Abraham Lincoln. These are the class notes from lecture 4:

"(Lincoln) believed in the existence of God, but not the god of Christianity or any other formal religion, though there was never any question in Lincoln's mind that this God was immensely powerful, so powerful that individual human wills really amounted to nothing."

^ That's not atheism.

I wonder why he said what he said in the citation I made. Interesting that someone he thought could be quite "aggressive about unbelief" he also felt was a believer.

Thanks for the different perspective from the same quote source.

 

[Cypress]

I wonder why he said what he said in the citation I made. Interesting that someone he thought could be quite "aggressive about unbelief" he also felt was a believer.

Thanks for the different perspective from the same quote source.

People change through their lives. As a young man, Lincoln rebelled against his father's strict Calvinist religious doctrine, but if you take Lincoln's life as a whole he took a basically Deist approach to spirituality

 

[PostmodernProphet]

LOL. Your compassion for your fellow humans is so clear here.

???....why do you think you need compassion?.....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

The Catholic Church of Quebec lost 90 percent of it's parishioners because the bishops and priests did not change and evolve in the way the active parishioners desired.

this begs the question of who was wrong......

 

[Saint Guinefort]

???....why do you think you need compassion?.....

Well, some people think Jesus taught love. I see your version lacks anything like that.

And Luke 6:31 also means, I guess, that people are encouraged to openly mock any pain you feel.

(Luke 6:31 is in the BIBLE....you should read it some time)

 

[Ross Dolan]

your argument has NO MERIT!!!!!!

My argument has lots of merit, but as I mentioned, I expect you morons to "dismiss" it.

Although you are doing a piss poor job of dismissing it. In fact, you are giving it more lie.

you are guaranteed to choose a religion, or not choose a religion. you are NOT guaranteed to be free from having to deal with any religion, much like you have NO RIGHT to NOT be offended by something........end of story. now go cry some more that the world is mean to you.

I should be free from the "one nation under Zeus" and "in Zeus we trust" bullshit also, but you just are not smart enough to see the merit of that.

So...go back to helping me by not dismissing my comments.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well, some people think Jesus taught love. I see your version lacks anything like that.

And Luke 6:31 also means, I guess, that people are encouraged to openly mock any pain you feel.

(Luke 6:31 is in the BIBLE....you should read it some time)

Pmp is a Satanist, dumbass. Get a clue, Perry.

 

[zymurgy]

you would have to be insane to think we fought a civil war to fundamentally change the role of the Church in American society

 

[NiftyNiblick]

maybe YOU should go back to junior high, then. there is zero fault for their wording..........if you understood english and history, you'd get it.

Spoken like a card-carrying member of the American Taliban.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Well, some people think Jesus taught love. I see your version lacks anything like that.

And Luke 6:31 also means, I guess, that people are encouraged to openly mock any pain you feel.

(Luke 6:31 is in the BIBLE....you should read it some time)

I'm sorry....we aren't required to love your ignorance and lies........if you step away and repent you merit compassion.......you have no plans to do so, do you.......

by the way, don't forget Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

you and your Dutch sock earn me blessings every day......

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I'm sorry....we aren't required to love your ignorance and lies........if you step away and repent you merit compassion.......you have no plans to do so, do you.......

by the way, don't forget Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

you and your Dutch sock earn me blessings every day......

"We" as in "We minions of Satan".

You quoting the Bible is rich, especially when you immediately follow it with a lie. LOL

 

[NiftyNiblick]

"We" as in "We minions of Satan".

You quoting the Bible is rich, especially when you immediately follow it with a lie. LOL

I read a lot of pulp fiction shit when I was a kid--especially Mickey Spillane Mike Hammer novels.

I suppose that I could quote some of those, but who's wants to see it?
I guess I'm like that with bible passages, but feel free, everybody.