What can be done

[Sammy Jankis]

So many are out of work in this great country, what can be done?

Nothing seems to work so far.

Has any one heard some ideas?

We need protectionism to stop the destruction of our standard of living with bad ideas of globalization zealotry.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Like I said, when things are good, they are good for big business (corporations) and good for working people. When things are bad, they are still good for big business, because big business has the capability of reducing expenses (like labor costs) to offset reduced sales.


Clarify. Do I think bunches of people going out and creating their own jobs would be good for America? Well, fracking DUH! But what does the legal aspect of corporateship have to do with it?

He's just outlining the fact that corporations are not people, despite judicial malfeasance.

Because they were not supposed to react in that manner. (Not that it could not be predicted they would - they just were not "supposed" to react in that manner.)

Of course, I personally believe corporate income taxes just end up hurting the consumer anyway - and outsourcing would occur regardless of the tax structures. So the lower they make corporate taxes, the better off we all are. Businesses (small and uber multinationals) treat taxes like any other expense: the higher the expense, the higher the price of products. If higher prices decrease sales, that can doom small businesses, but big businesses just lay people off (ie: decrease other expenses) and keep the higher profits anyway. And if the higher prices do not decrease sales, keep the profits even more. In the end, when corporate taxes go up, the people take a hit, as consumers and as laborers. When corporate taxes come down, the people take less of a hit.

Outsourcing is a different topic - with all the FTAs that came about the last couple decades, outsourcing was going to happen no matter what was done with corporate taxes. They would have to come up with one hell of a punative tax system to make outsourcing unprofitable.

they just need to ban imports or the sale of work products derived from foreign laborer. easy.

 

[Liberty]

So many are out of work in this great country, what can be done?

Nothing seems to work so far.

Has any one heard some ideas?

Repeal the 16th amendment, & stop making employers be income tax collectors. And get rid of the EPA.

This would be a great start at bringing jobs back.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Repeal the 16th amendment, & stop making employers be income tax collectors. And get rid of the EPA.

This would be a great start at bringing jobs back.

But corporations send jobs overseas due to lower wages there, not because of taxes. your suggestion is actually unrelated to solving a jobs problem.

 

[Liberty]

But corporations send jobs overseas due to lower wages there, not because of taxes. your suggestion is actually unrelated to solving a jobs problem.

This statement shows your lack of knowledge about business.

Corps employ a small % of people compared to the Mom & Pops and small business.

Taxes and regulations do have a major factor in corps locating. Cheap labor does to, but your to focused on corps, & unions.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

This statement shows your lack of knowledge about business.

Corps employ a small % of people compared to the Mom & Pops and small business.

Taxes and regulations do have a major factor in corps locating. Cheap labor does to, but your to focused on corps, & unions.

I'm sorry cretin, but lowering tax rates do not address the labor costs, which are the motivating factor.

Globalization is destroying the very fabric of our society, and you're still stuck on tax rates. grow up.

 

[Cancel8]

Is it possible that governments can encourage offshoring and that while small and mid-sized business is normally not able to take advantage of these incentives, the reulting lowering of prices drives many out of business since they are no longer competitive?

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Is it possible that governments can encourage offshoring and that while small and mid-sized business is normally not able to take advantage of these incentives, the reulting lowering of prices drives many out of business since they are no longer competitive?

No. I do not think there should be a government program to facilitate outsourcing opportunities for smaller companies. I think that would be very bad.

 

[Liberty]

I'm sorry cretin, but lowering tax rates do not address the labor costs, which are the motivating factor.

Globalization is destroying the very fabric of our society, and you're still stuck on tax rates. grow up.

I've run my own business all my adult life except for the last five years.

The company I work for at this time is about to lay off 4 people, (Dec 15th) and the employees don't know it yet.

The company I work for is hoping things will pick up enough next year so we can move our company out of the country. The owners tell me it's because of taxes, and regulations. Way to much govt.

But what do I and they know.

I haven't heard them say anything about globalization. If I came in defending your nonsense they would think I was crazy, or uneducated.

You should go out and start your own business and see first hand how stupid you sound. Go ahead and unionize when you hire your first few employees, and let them outline all the goodies you will have to come up with for them. Not to mention the burden govt brings.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Vote Republican !

He said fix the problem not make if worse. Why the fuck would we vote for the people that drove us into the ditch in the first place?

Now I'm not to happy that Dems haven't exactly gotten us out of the ditch more quickly but I aint exactly forgotten it was incompetent Republican ideologues that got us into this fucking mess in the first place.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I have a couple of ideas but I'm keeping them close to the vest for now.

Were not playing poker Wacko. You can tell us.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

I've run my own business all my adult life except for the last five years.

The company I work for at this time is about to lay off 4 people, (Dec 15th) and the employees don't know it yet.

The company I work for is hoping things will pick up enough next year so we can move our company out of the country. The owners tell me it's because of taxes, and regulations. Way to much govt.

But what do I and they know.

I haven't heard them say anything about globalization. If I came in defending your nonsense they would think I was crazy, or uneducated.

You should go out and start your own business and see first hand how stupid you sound. Go ahead and unionize when you hire your first few employees, and let them outline all the goodies you will have to come up with for them. Not to mention the burden govt brings.

Of course your bosses want access to cheaper labor.

They support globalization because they want cheaper labor. This labor should not be accessible one the international labor market, because it's human slavery.

your bosses are immoral. It's not moral people are stupid. it's called being a patriot, look into it, corporate stormtrooper.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Quit depending on the government, for one. When push comes to shove, those in government are, like anyone else, most concerned with their own well being. Big, bloated, strong central government is what those in government want because it gives them the most. The "help" the big mommy government hooligans keep supporting is purposely designed to give the dependents just enough to keep them coming back and voting for more. If you think government assistance is about helping people become self sufficient, you need to come down off your drug high and take a long, hard look at reality. Dependence on government is a one way ticket to totalitarianism.

Second, quit depending on big business. They aren't going to do anything other than pad their bottom line. That is what they exist for. When things are good, they'll hire people, put them to work, and make better profits. When things are bad, they lay people off to conserve profits. So when it comes to brass tacks, when things are good, they are good for big business and good for the people. When things are bad they are still good for big business, and bad for the people.

Therefore, let the people BECOME business, in and of themselves. Instead of sitting at home waiting for that nefarious and unstable jobs market to open up, MAKE YOUR OWN JOB!! Find a need and fill it. Or better yet, fond a a want - wants are more profitable. (funny how people are almost invariably willing to spend far more on their wants than their needs) Small businesses have been the backbone of our economy since we told King George to take a powder. There is a reason for that: because small business means people are doing for themselves, instead of being either dependent on government, on big business, or (shudder) both. Self reliance is always more stable than dependence - especially dependence on those whose purpose is to simply use you for their own benefit.

One thing we have today that previous generations did not. We have an infrastructure available that quite literally avails to us a WORLD market for whatever product(s) or service(s) we can dream up. It's time to go to work, people.

You make some good points but I don't agree with you completely. First of all, were all in this together and working together we can make good things happen.

First lets look at what the problem with unemployment is? The problem with unemployment is that the jobs situation in this nation has changed drastically. It's no longer labor oriented but skills oriented. We currently have about 5 million jobs in this nation that are going unfilled because there are not enough people with the skills to fill those positions. If we could fill those jobs that would drop unemployment down to a reasonable 5% (approx). We need to fix that, we need to find some way to increase the training and educational oppurtunities so that these jobs can be filled. The economic spin off from that alone would be substantial.

To do that several things need to happen. Those who are unemployed with old skill sets or from labor intensive jobs have to accept personal accountability in that they must do the work and make the sacrifices to learn new jobs skills that make them marketable again or at the least upgrade the skills they do have to make them more current.

To help these people a combination of public and private support would help. Now don't get me wrong, the individual needs to do the work to learn new skills but I see no problem with the government providing these people support as long as those being assisted demonstrate measurable progress in gaining education and new jobs skills. We should also provide incentives, such at tax cuts or exemptions, to industry/business for providing skills training to fill these positions internally. It would require a sizable investment but history has shown, using for example the GI Bill, that the return on investment would be huge. I see a lot to be gained from such a collaboration between individuals, the Government and Business/Industry to promote jobs and skills training and education. It's a win/win situation that can realize a huge return on investment.

Another good idea is public works. That is an ivestment that usually pays off well too but if we really want something like that to succeed it has to be not only a very large national project but a forward thinking one. Some historical precedence that I would give in which such projects had immeasurable benefits, economic and otherwise, would be The Intercontinental Railroad, The Panama Canal and The Space Race/Manned Moon missions. I would be all for such a forward thinking national project. One that I can think of that has potential is a national project to have our nation energy dependent and off foreign oil by 2025. Say a national Manhattan project for energy independence. We can put a lot of people to work, create economic wealth and promote strategic and security goals that energy independence would provide.

So there's a lot to be said for individual effort and accountability and I'm all for it but it would be a big mistake to discount the positive role both government and business/industry can provide if all three sectors were to collaborate for this common goal.

 

[Liberty]

What else can be said to you.

Most company's, and small company's don't want to move out of the country. They're being driven out.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

What else can be said to you.

Most company's, and small company's don't want to move out of the country. They're being driven out.

Just acknowledge that cheaper labor from overseas is attractive to them.

It's not all about taxes. Your inability to acknowledge other factors renders you illegitimized on the topic.

 

[Liberty]

Just acknowledge that cheaper labor from overseas is attractive to them.

It's not all about taxes. Your inability to acknowledge other factors renders you illegitimized on the topic.

I gave an answer to Mojos question.

You're answer doesn't create jobs.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

good post....

i heard on the radio this week that corps supposedly made a shitload of money and profits are actually up this year and this is due to layoffs and overseas outsourcing....

couple of questions i have:

1. is this good for america? corps are purely a statutory creation that only exist due to american laws (and exist elsewhere due to laws of said nation) and enjoy american protection.

2. since jobs seem to be good for america, why is it that we give tax breaks to corps when they outsource and in a year their profits rise?

Excellent questions Yurt.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

What else can be said to you.

Most company's, and small company's don't want to move out of the country. They're being driven out.

Oh that's utter non-sense. There's not a business owner in the world that doesn't want to be completely unregulated, that is, until someone does something that hurts their business, then they want them regulated (but not themselves of course). What your suggesting is pure hypocrisy. As a citizen of this nation I have certain rights, including my property rights and if your business can't deal with the regulations put in place to protect my rights, then please feel free to leave, in fact, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

It is the business of business to maximize profits. If that means my rights have to be sacrificed so they can profit then they would have no moral qualms in doing so. This is why we have regulations.

Business people like you just described disgust the hell out of me. They want to mooch off of all our public assets, services and infrastructure but cry like little babies when they are forced to play by the rules and are asked to pay for their fair share of public services that they profit hugely from.

Well here's the golden rule of doing business in America pal, "Ass, gas or grass, No one rides for free!"

If they think their going to get a free ride some where else, then they are certainly free to go there. My guess is their in for a big wake up call.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

I gave an answer to Mojos question.

You're answer doesn't create jobs.

You just began ranting about your lopsided view of things. Of course business wants to avoid any and all kind of regulation. and of course they want cheaper labor. your vision of a society run by the whims of corporate fancy is a dystopia in the first degree.

 

[Cancel8]

You just began ranting about your lopsided view of things. Of course business wants to avoid any and all kind of regulation. and of course they want cheaper labor. your vision of a society run by the whims of corporate fancy is a dystopia in the first degree.

You have stated that protectionism saves economies, can you state which economies were saved by protectionism?