What if nobody is bad at math?

B

BidenPresident

Verified User
As scientist in residence at the Art Institute of Chicago, I’ve been teaching art students at undergraduate level for eight years. Most of them were badly put off maths at school. I ask them what they found so disagreeable, and there are clear recurring themes: memorisation, especially of times tables, timed tests, right-and-wrong answers, and being made to feel stupid for making mistakes. Often they felt alienated because they had searching questions – such as why does -(-1)=1; do numbers exist; is maths real – but they were told these were silly or irrelevant, and they should get back to their repetitive, algorithmic homework assignments.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/may/29/what-if-nobody-is-bad-at-maths

Brits write "maths" rather than US, "math."
 
Some peoples minds are perfectly structured for being a human calculator


I wish my mind had that ability


I have to work really hard to do higher math


I got my ass through algebra A and B in college after a bad experience in high school with them, after having As all my life in basic math


After doing that I ended my college math career and took nearly everything else


So many other subjects that were much more entertaining
 
evince said:
Some peoples minds are perfectly structured for being a human calculator


I wish my mind had that ability


I have to work really hard to do higher math


I got my ass through algebra A and B in college after a bad experience in high school with them, after having As all my life in basic math


After doing that I ended my college math career and took nearly everything else


So many other subjects that were much more entertaining
Click to expand...

Math can be a lot of fun, especially with the right tools.

I'm not a natural statistician but I LOVE doing statistical DOE's and doing stats if I have a good tool like Minitab or R. Same with linear algebra. I've greatly enjoyed doing matrix calculations using Excel's matrix functions moreso than doing them long hand.

The concepts are fun, sometimes the actual calculations are a drudge.
 
evince said:
Some peoples minds are perfectly structured for being a human calculator


I wish my mind had that ability


I have to work really hard to do higher math


I got my ass through algebra A and B in college after a bad experience in high school with them, after having As all my life in basic math


After doing that I ended my college math career and took nearly everything else


So many other subjects that were much more entertaining
Click to expand...

You're a bot, you're better positioned for math than any other member of this forum.
 
My experience with the liberal arts side of things, so-to-speak, is that they either never were exposed to the basics, didn't really have any interest in them, or were simply too stupid to grasp them.

The first two categories you can deal with. The third, is basically you just leave them to do other things that don't require math. For the first two, I usually do what the Navy did in teaching new math concepts to various trades (ratings) and skills sets. You reduce the problem to a level of math where the person can do it, even if it takes longer, is repetitive, and not an "elegant" solution. The idea was to get a correct answer. This is the direct opposite, converse, of Common Core Math. It works, and for something like 75% of students K to 12 is the way math should be taught.

The other thing involved is that the person has to have at least some real interest in something where that math is applied. In teaching trades, I prefer to show how to do things using rules of thumb and other non-math involved means to do stuff to simplify, quicken, and get the correct results. That way, regardless of the person's level of education or skill in math they can succeed at doing what needs to be done even if they'll never end up being the person in charge.

 
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Tinkerpeach said:
I can multiply but that’s about it
Click to expand...

I just asked that because most of my students who struggle with fractions also struggle with multiplication and division, which are necessary to perform operations with fractions.

I remember having a conversation with a grandpa whose 5th grade granddaughter was struggling. I showed him how to add 1/3 + 1/2 on a napkin at the store here in our town. I finished and he exclaimed, “They expect 5th graders to do that?!?” I responded, “Only everywhere in the world.”

Finding common denominators, reducing final results to lowest terms, changing from mixed numbers to improper fractions and back again … it all requires recall of multiplication facts learned in 2nd and 3rd grade.

But I digress…as you might can tell, I’m pretty passionate about math. And I realize people make it through life just fine without being able to perform operations with fractions. My dad could help me with everything until I got to fractions in the 5th grade. He’s done just fine. I just figure the more kids I can get more math across to the better they’ll do if the pursue academics after high school.
 
The demand for tech will necessitate emphasis on math, but I'm more concerned with English.

Technical writing today is horrifically bad. Instructions and instruction manuals would be hard pressed to get any worse.

In providing instructions, the very first rule should be...
ANTICIPATE THE LIKELY MISTAKE.
This concept is obviously unheard of by the current generation.

It goes well beyond technical writing.

People mangle the language because they feel like it and they can.

They invent new meanings for pronouns to be politically correct.

They disrespect proper grammar so much that they refer to people who respect it as "grammar nazis."

They use texting abbreviations in all written correspondence.

It's gotten really bad, and it probably won't get better because so few people seem to care.

I suspect that it began with people abandoning established formality in their personal conversations.

Whatever the reason, we're losing the ability to communicate cogently.
 
evince said:
Some peoples minds are perfectly structured for being a human calculator


I wish my mind had that ability


I have to work really hard to do higher math


I got my ass through algebra A and B in college after a bad experience in high school with them, after having As all my life in basic math


After doing that I ended my college math career and took nearly everything else


So many other subjects that were much more entertaining
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that important for most people to be able to take derivatives of a function or have the quadratic formula memorized.

I think everybody can benefit from a robust exposure to mathmatical logic. Unfortunately, proofs and theorems are rarely openly taught in any systematic way in high school, and only in geometry class was there a nominal exposure to it.

Abraham Lincoln said reading Euclid's Elements made him a much better lawyer because it trained him in logic.
 
I agree it has its beauty


My brain is not predominately structured for it


I have had friends and family members who’s brain was structured for it

A few of my seven siblings were killer at higher math


I’ve had friends who majored in it


There are logical endeavors that were encompassed in other subject matters that were Greek to some of those people I knew


It just seemed they could NOT PROCESS certain things that made perfect logical sense to me



We need all kinds of brain structures to fully master this higher societal structure we are building


No shame in any of these brain structures


It’s merely more proof we function better by working together and wasting NONE of our talents
 
NiftyNiblick said:
The demand for tech will necessitate emphasis on math, but I'm more concerned with English.

Technical writing today is horrifically bad. Instructions and instruction manuals would be hard pressed to get any worse.

In providing instructions, the very first rule should be...
ANTICIPATE THE LIKELY MISTAKE.
This concept is obviously unheard of by the current generation.

It goes well beyond technical writing.

People mangle the language because they feel like it and they can.

They invent new meanings for pronouns to be politically correct.

They disrespect proper grammar so much that they refer to people who respect it as "grammar nazis."

They use texting abbreviations in all written correspondence.

It's gotten really bad, and it probably won't get better because so few people seem to care.

I suspect that it began with people abandoning established formality in their personal conversations.

Whatever the reason, we're losing the ability to communicate cogently.
Click to expand...

Language was developed for communication


Language has always evolved


Fighting that doesn’t get one much
 
leaningright said:
I just asked that because most of my students who struggle with fractions also struggle with multiplication and division, which are necessary to perform operations with fractions.

I remember having a conversation with a grandpa whose 5th grade granddaughter was struggling. I showed him how to add 1/3 + 1/2 on a napkin at the store here in our town. I finished and he exclaimed, “They expect 5th graders to do that?!?” I responded, “Only everywhere in the world.”

Finding common denominators, reducing final results to lowest terms, changing from mixed numbers to improper fractions and back again … it all requires recall of multiplication facts learned in 2nd and 3rd grade.

But I digress…as you might can tell, I’m pretty passionate about math. And I realize people make it through life just fine without being able to perform operations with fractions. My dad could help me with everything until I got to fractions in the 5th grade. He’s done just fine. I just figure the more kids I can get more math across to the better they’ll do if the pursue academics after high school.
Click to expand...




And the key is to develop better teaching methods by studying how the non math wired brain can best learn it


Not shaming people for not knowing it due to the wrong teaching methods
 
Guille said:
You're a bot, you're better positioned for math than any other member of this forum.
Click to expand...

You are a shitty human IF you are a human


I display none of the tell tale indications of being a bot hole


But then facts and logic are not you strong suit
 
BidenPresident said:
As scientist in residence at the Art Institute of Chicago, I’ve been teaching art students at undergraduate level for eight years. Most of them were badly put off maths at school. I ask them what they found so disagreeable, and there are clear recurring themes: memorisation, especially of times tables, timed tests, right-and-wrong answers, and being made to feel stupid for making mistakes. Often they felt alienated because they had searching questions – such as why does -(-1)=1; do numbers exist; is maths real – but they were told these were silly or irrelevant, and they should get back to their repetitive, algorithmic homework assignments.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/may/29/what-if-nobody-is-bad-at-maths

Brits write "maths" rather than US, "math."
Click to expand...

Differing ways to teach non math centered brains could solve this
 
evince said:
I agree it has its beauty


My brain is not predominately structured for it


I have had friends and family members who’s brain was structured for it

A few of my seven siblings were killer at higher math


I’ve had friends who majored in it


There are logical endeavors that were encompassed in other subject matters that were Greek to some of those people I knew


It just seemed they could NOT PROCESS certain things that made perfect logical sense to me



We need all kinds of brain structures to fully master this higher societal structure we are building


No shame in any of these brain structures


It’s merely more proof we function better by working together and wasting NONE of our talents
Click to expand...

A lot of the proofs I've seen in geometry and number theory just require arithmetic and basic algebra. And they teach one the framework and logic behind different kinds of proofs
 
How about we learn how to teach it to everyone with tailored programs for how the varied human brain structures work


I bet we could
 
evince said:
And the key is to develop better teaching methods by studying how the non math wired brain can best learn it


Not shaming people for not knowing it due to the wrong teaching methods
Click to expand...

Good math teachers are rare. I had one really excellent algebra teacher in 11th grade, and outside of her I was always just a B student in math classes.
 
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