What is the deep state?

Michael_Panetta said:
Unions are good.
Click to expand...

Unions are useless, well most of the time. They have a place with some anal retentive companies, but on the whole they're worthless.

The one where I used to work was certainly that way. It was $40 a payday (per two weeks) to join. I refused. In fact, the local president and I had an understanding. I'd leave the union alone if they left me alone. That worked out pretty well.
I was there 23 years and change before retiring so I didn't waste about $24,000 on that worthless union. Never needed union representation. One of the local presidents stole about $35,000 from the union funds for her personal use. She bought a lifetime membership with some of it, tires for her car I was told, etc. The union didn't even prosecute her when she got caught.
Reading the labor-management relations meetings with her as union president were hilarious and just one more argument that joining would have been a mistake.

One time the union had a hamburger - hotdog get together for the employees. The higher ups from the national HQ were there. This one guy came over and sat by me. He asked if I was a member. I said "No." He asked why not. I lit into him about my Beck rights, then about "What's the union going to do to get me promoted?" and "What are you doing to get me more skills so I can do more at work?" He stammered that wasn't really what the union did. So I asked "What does the union do?" He told me "It protects your job." I quoted the character Rom from Star Trek DS 9 (yes, Star Trek is quotable). "I don't want to stop the oppression. I want to become it!" I told him I didn't need the union for that. If I got called on the carpet and I thought it was worth fighting management over it, I'd hire a pack of piranha and man-eating sharks in three-piece suits to take care of the problem, not some idiot from the union, not that I thought I get into such a position.

About then he suddenly saw someone he needed to talk to right now. I casually told the local president a bit later he should have warned the guy about me and to stay away...
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Unions are useless, well most of the time. They have a place with some anal retentive companies, but on the whole they're worthless.

The one where I used to work was certainly that way. It was $40 a payday (per two weeks) to join. I refused. In fact, the local president and I had an understanding. I'd leave the union alone if they left me alone. That worked out pretty well.
I was there 23 years and change before retiring so I didn't waste about $24,000 on that worthless union. Never needed union representation. One of the local presidents stole about $35,000 from the union funds for her personal use. She bought a lifetime membership with some of it, tires for her car I was told, etc. The union didn't even prosecute her when she got caught.
Reading the labor-management relations meetings with her as union president were hilarious and just one more argument that joining would have been a mistake.

One time the union had a hamburger - hotdog get together for the employees. The higher ups from the national HQ were there. This one guy came over and sat by me. He asked if I was a member. I said "No." He asked why not. I lit into him about my Beck rights, then about "What's the union going to do to get me promoted?" and "What are you doing to get me more skills so I can do more at work?" He stammered that wasn't really what the union did. So I asked "What does the union do?" He told me "It protects your job." I quoted the character Rom from Star Trek DS 9 (yes, Star Trek is quotable). "I don't want to stop the oppression. I want to become it!" I told him I didn't need the union for that. If I got called on the carpet and I thought it was worth fighting management over it, I'd hire a pack of piranha and man-eating sharks in three-piece suits to take care of the problem, not some idiot from the union, not that I thought I get into such a position.

About then he suddenly saw someone he needed to talk to right now. I casually told the local president a bit later he should have warned the guy about me and to stay away...
Click to expand...

would you rather have 16 hour days and slave wages?

typical neocon brainwash victims always like to pretend these hard won gains which created the middle class are a result of free markets, but that's a lie. these gains are a result of the labor movement, and corporations were brought along kicking and screaming, hiring organized crimes and private security to bust skulls.

historical revisionism occurs on the right too.

have things gone too far on some areas? yes.

but lets not deny the reality. people died to facilitate the middle class. let's honor their sacrifice by at least being honest.
 
AssHatZombie said:
would you rather have 16 hour days and slave wages?
Click to expand...

Much of that was achieved without unions. Some of it was because of unions, but they aren't a panacea. On the flip side would you want your union to press for higher and higher wages until the employer goes out of business because he can no longer afford your wage demands? The US auto industry in Detroit was ruined in part by that.

typical neocon brainwash victims always like to pretend these hard won gains which created the middle class are a result of free markets, but that's a lie. these gains are a result of the labor movement, and corporations were brought along kicking and screaming, hiring organized crimes and private security to bust skulls.
Click to expand...

This is not true. Many companies have voluntarily adopted improved working conditions, better wages, or more benefits because they can afford them and want their workers to be happy and productive. Ford raised wages because he saw a benefit to his employees being able to afford his products, as one well-known example.

Unions were historically just as vicious. They would force workers to join regardless of their desire to do so. They hired thugs and "leg breakers" to beat senseless anyone who crossed their picket lines. So, don't hold unions blameless they can be just as bad as any big business tycoon, and sometimes even worse.

In some industries high wages simply are not possible because the return on investment per capita is too low. Traditional hand mining is a good example. It has been the mass mechanization of this industry that has made better wages and conditions possible. The capital investment to do that is much higher, but the volume of production has so greatly increased that decent wages can now be paid, at least in more developed countries.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Much of that was achieved without unions. Some of it was because of unions, but they aren't a panacea. On the flip side would you want your union to press for higher and higher wages until the employer goes out of business because he can no longer afford your wage demands? The US auto industry in Detroit was ruined in part by that.



This is not true. Many companies have voluntarily adopted improved working conditions, better wages, or more benefits because they can afford them and want their workers to be happy and productive. Ford raised wages because he saw a benefit to his employees being able to afford his products, as one well-known example.

Unions were historically just as vicious. They would force workers to join regardless of their desire to do so. They hired thugs and "leg breakers" to beat senseless anyone who crossed their picket lines. So, don't hold unions blameless they can be just as bad as any big business tycoon, and sometimes even worse.

In some industries high wages simply are not possible because the return on investment per capita is too low. Traditional hand mining is a good example. It has been the mass mechanization of this industry that has made better wages and conditions possible. The capital investment to do that is much higher, but the volume of production has so greatly increased that decent wages can now be paid, at least in more developed countries.
Click to expand...

you're bullshitting again.


get off the neocon libertarian propaganda.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top