What is the difference between the old and new covenant ? Frank

Faith is a conviction that things not seen are true. The US court system has been using this method of determining truth beyond the reason of doubt since the inception of the US rule of law. Its called "PRIMA FACIE" truth. Educate yourself ...

... "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools...

Ralphie, ol' boy, it is you who seriously needs a time-out for education.

Prima Facie directly translates from Latin as "First Sight"

Even the word "evidence" has among its etymological roots the Latin word for "seeing".

So while there is some merit in your claim that Faith being a conviction that things *NOT SEEN* are true, your shot yourself in the foot by appealing to the necessity of seeing/sight.

And if there ever was a biblical verse exemplifying psychological projection, it is "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools..."
.
 
I ignored the reference to Yarn Suf because it had nothing to do with what we are discussing.....I have to do that a lot when you post.....

I thought we were talking about Prima Facie here. Yam or Yamm is the Canaanite god of the sea..

It helps in understanding that the Exodus is a metaphor not history.
 
Ralphie, ol' boy, it is you who seriously needs a time-out for education.

Prima Facie directly translates from Latin as "First Sight"

Even the word "evidence" has among its etymological roots the Latin word for "seeing".

So while there is some merit in your claim that Faith being a conviction that things *NOT SEEN* are true, your shot yourself in the foot by appealing to the necessity of seeing/sight.

And if there ever was a biblical verse exemplifying psychological projection, it is "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools..."
.

Prima facie evidence shows the epic Bible stories to be myth and metaphor NOT history.


Its valuable didactic literature NOT science or history.
 
no, dumbfuck, it is not.....

Prima facie here remember?


Despite strong objections from conservative Christian apologists, the prevailing rabbinic interpretation of Isaiah 53 ascribes the “servant” to the nation of Israel who silently endured unimaginable suffering at the hands of its gentile oppressors. The speakers, in this most-debated chapter, are the stunned kings of nations who will bear witness to the messianic age and the final vindication of the Jewish people following their long and bitter exile. “Who would have believed our report?,” the astonished and contrite world leaders wonder aloud in dazed bewilderment (53:1).1

The stimulus for the world’s baffled response contained in this famed cluster of chapters at the end of the Book of Isaiah is the unexpected salvation of Israel. The redemption of God’s people is the central theme in the preceding verse (52:12) where the “you” signifies the Jewish people who are sheltered and delivered by God. Moreover, the “afflicted barren woman” in the following chapter is protected and saved by God, and is also universally recognized as the nation of Israel2 (54:1).

The well-worn claim frequently advanced by Christian apologists who argue that the noted Jewish commentator, Rashi (1040 CE – 1105 CE), was the first to identify the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 with the nation of Israel is inaccurate and misleading.

In fact, Origen, a prominent and influential church father, conceded in the year 248 CE – eight centuries before Rashi was born – that the consensus among the Jews in his time was that Isaiah 53 “bore reference to the whole [Jewish] people, regarded as one individual, and as being in a state of dispersion and suffering, in order that many proselytes might be gained, on account of the dispersion of the Jews among numerous heathen nations.”3

The broad consensus among Jewish, and even some Christian commentators, that the “servant” in Isaiah 52-53 refers to the nation of Israel is understandable. Isaiah 53, which is the fourth of four renowned Servant Songs, is umbilically connected to its preceding chapters. The “servant” in each of the three previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the nation of Israel.

Isaiah 41:8-9

But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.”

Isaiah 44:1

But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen!

Isaiah 44:21

Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.

Isaiah 45:4

For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I called you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me.

Isaiah 48:20

Go out from Babylon, flee from Chaldea, declare this with a shout of joy, proclaim it, send it out to the end of the earth; say, “The Lord has redeemed his servant Jacob!”

Isaiah 49:3

And he said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”

According to this widespread rabbinic opinion, Isaiah 53 contains a deeply moving narrative which world leaders will cry aloud in the messianic age. The humbled kings of nations (52: 15) will confess that Jewish suffering occurred as a direct result of “our own iniquity,” (53:5) e.g., depraved Jew-hatred, rather than, as they previously thought, the stubborn blindness of the Jews.

The stunned reaction of the world’s nations to the unexpected vindication and redemption of the Jewish nation in the messianic age is a recurring theme throughout the Hebrew Scriptures.4 Israel’s neighbors will be amazed when their age-old assessment of the Jew is finally proven wrong. Throughout Israel’s long and bitter exile, the nations mistakenly attributed the miserable predicament of the Jew to his stubborn rejection of the world’s religions.

In the End of Days, however, the gentiles will discover what was until then unimaginable – the unwavering Jew was, in fact, all this time faithful to the one true God. On the other hand, “We despised and held him of no account” (53:3).

In essence, the final and complete redemption of the Jews, to which the stunned nations will bear witness, contradicts everything Israel’s gentile neighbors had ever previously anticipated, heard, or considered (52:15). “Who would have believed our report?” the kings will ask with their mouths wide open in amazement (53:1). The curtain of blindness is finally lifted when the “holy Arm of the Lord before the eyes of all the nations, all the ends of the earth will witness the salvation of His people” (52:10).

https://outreachjudaism.org/gods-suffering-servant-isaiah-53/
 
Christian faith is not blind, its based upon the Word and its transcendent authority. Faith constructed upon Biblical Evidence is not BLIND just as the author of John declared, "And truly Jesus did many other sings in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book, but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God...…" -- John 20:30-31


Faith is a conviction that things not seen are true. The US court system has been using this method of determining truth beyond the reason of doubt since the inception of the US rule of law. Its called "PRIMA FACIE" truth. Educate yourself. ;) When truth is beyond the capacity of science to measure or quantify....such as historical truth or unobserved truth, one must use reason and logic to deduct truth beyond the reason of doubt. Thus far your ad hominem BS drabble has produced nothing that would give anyone reason to doubt the existence of an unseen supernatural realm that is superior to nature. Unless you have a Super Natural -0- meter in your pocket, just how are you to measure or quantify that which is beyond the realm of physics to measure? Produce that tool if you have one in your hip pocket. :laugh:

Conclusion: God has given up on all such reprobates, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.....Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanliness...." -- Romans 1:18-28

As always, "It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise than for a man to hear the songs of a fool." -- Eccl. 7:5:bigthink:


But it is as my PAP used to say......its good to be entertained by the sound of your words rattling in your head so you can listen to your own words. You have wasted an entire thread and not pro0duced anything that can be objectively measured for truth, such as the words found in scripture that are read the same for everyone (if you can comprehend simple English). The scriptures are real and have existed for thousands of years....thus, Objectivity exists to measure. When the Book, Chapter and Verse are produced......there is no room for deception..

YOU people are all making a blind guess that a god exists...and that the Bible tells you about that god...what pleases it and what offends it. And you are being stone-headed in insisting that your blind guess is correct.

None of you are honest or ethical enough to acknowledge that is what is happening...so you use words to disguise the fact that you are blindly guessing (I "believe")...and you use words to disguise the fact that you are being stone-headed about your blind guesses (I have "faith.")

Collectively, you people are a joke. In order to adhere to your religion, you must break a fundamental tenet of it: You must lie and be deceitful; you cannot tell the truth or be ethical.

So...do so.

The smart thing to do is to do it in private.

But, some of you insist that it be done in a public forum...and there are those of us who are going to tell you the truth...that you are blindly guessing.

And I suspect that most of us...as I am...will laugh at the rationalizations (lies) you must tell in order to make your pathetic defenses.
 
YOU people are all making a blind guess that a god exists...and that the Bible tells you about that god...what pleases it and what offends it. And you are being stone-headed in insisting that your blind guess is correct.

None of you are honest or ethical enough to acknowledge that is what is happening...so you use words to disguise the fact that you are blindly guessing (I "believe")...and you use words to disguise the fact that you are being stone-headed about your blind guesses (I have "faith.")

Collectively, you people are a joke. In order to adhere to your religion, you must break a fundamental tenet of it: You must lie and be deceitful; you cannot tell the truth or be ethical.

So...do so.

The smart thing to do is to do it in private.

But, some of you insist that it be done in a public forum...and there are those of us who are going to tell you the truth...that you are blindly guessing.

And I suspect that most of us...as I am...will laugh at the rationalizations (lies) you must tell in order to make your pathetic defenses.

:laugh: The go to answer for Frank Nuh Uh! Wait, the truth, I thought you didn't know! The so called lies are backed up by the inspired word of God sparky!
 
:laugh: The go to answer for Frank Nuh Uh! Wait, the truth, I thought you didn't know!

Sorry, I forgot I was responding to an asshole.

I DO NOT KNOW IF THERE ARE GODS OR NOT...and neither do you.

I DO KNOW that you are just blindly guessing.

Can you understand that? If not, just ask a high schooler to explain it.



The so called lies are backed up by the inspired word of God sparky!

Sure.

And if the so-called lies were about Zeus...Zeus would have been the inspiration.

Jesus H. Christ. Do you people even think?
 
:laugh: The go to answer for Frank Nuh Uh! Wait, the truth, I thought you didn't know! The so called lies are backed up by the inspired word of God sparky!

You are blindly guessing there is a god...

...and then blindly guessing that the god is "inspiring" you.

It more likely is insanity at work here.
 
I thought we were talking about Prima Facie here. Yam or Yamm is the Canaanite god of the sea..

It helps in understanding that the Exodus is a metaphor not history.

no one needs to share your delusions about Exodus and certainly Yammie is irrelevant to Exodus in the first place.....as to your reference of Prima Facie, if you are referring to evidence instead of another pagan god, nothing in your posts is evidence of anything except your blind devotion to atheist ignorance......
 
Prima facie here remember?


Despite strong objections from conservative Christian apologists, the prevailing rabbinic interpretation of Isaiah 53 ascribes the “servant” to the nation of Israel who silently endured unimaginable suffering at the hands of its gentile oppressors. The speakers, in this most-debated chapter, are the stunned kings of nations who will bear witness to the messianic age and the final vindication of the Jewish people following their long and bitter exile. “Who would have believed our report?,” the astonished and contrite world leaders wonder aloud in dazed bewilderment (53:1).1

The stimulus for the world’s baffled response contained in this famed cluster of chapters at the end of the Book of Isaiah is the unexpected salvation of Israel. The redemption of God’s people is the central theme in the preceding verse (52:12) where the “you” signifies the Jewish people who are sheltered and delivered by God. Moreover, the “afflicted barren woman” in the following chapter is protected and saved by God, and is also universally recognized as the nation of Israel2 (54:1).

The well-worn claim frequently advanced by Christian apologists who argue that the noted Jewish commentator, Rashi (1040 CE – 1105 CE), was the first to identify the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 with the nation of Israel is inaccurate and misleading.

In fact, Origen, a prominent and influential church father, conceded in the year 248 CE – eight centuries before Rashi was born – that the consensus among the Jews in his time was that Isaiah 53 “bore reference to the whole [Jewish] people, regarded as one individual, and as being in a state of dispersion and suffering, in order that many proselytes might be gained, on account of the dispersion of the Jews among numerous heathen nations.”3

The broad consensus among Jewish, and even some Christian commentators, that the “servant” in Isaiah 52-53 refers to the nation of Israel is understandable. Isaiah 53, which is the fourth of four renowned Servant Songs, is umbilically connected to its preceding chapters. The “servant” in each of the three previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the nation of Israel.

Isaiah 41:8-9

But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.”

Isaiah 44:1

But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen!

Isaiah 44:21

Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.

Isaiah 45:4

For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I called you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me.

Isaiah 48:20

Go out from Babylon, flee from Chaldea, declare this with a shout of joy, proclaim it, send it out to the end of the earth; say, “The Lord has redeemed his servant Jacob!”

Isaiah 49:3

And he said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”

According to this widespread rabbinic opinion, Isaiah 53 contains a deeply moving narrative which world leaders will cry aloud in the messianic age. The humbled kings of nations (52: 15) will confess that Jewish suffering occurred as a direct result of “our own iniquity,” (53:5) e.g., depraved Jew-hatred, rather than, as they previously thought, the stubborn blindness of the Jews.

The stunned reaction of the world’s nations to the unexpected vindication and redemption of the Jewish nation in the messianic age is a recurring theme throughout the Hebrew Scriptures.4 Israel’s neighbors will be amazed when their age-old assessment of the Jew is finally proven wrong. Throughout Israel’s long and bitter exile, the nations mistakenly attributed the miserable predicament of the Jew to his stubborn rejection of the world’s religions.

In the End of Days, however, the gentiles will discover what was until then unimaginable – the unwavering Jew was, in fact, all this time faithful to the one true God. On the other hand, “We despised and held him of no account” (53:3).

In essence, the final and complete redemption of the Jews, to which the stunned nations will bear witness, contradicts everything Israel’s gentile neighbors had ever previously anticipated, heard, or considered (52:15). “Who would have believed our report?” the kings will ask with their mouths wide open in amazement (53:1). The curtain of blindness is finally lifted when the “holy Arm of the Lord before the eyes of all the nations, all the ends of the earth will witness the salvation of His people” (52:10).

https://outreachjudaism.org/gods-suffering-servant-isaiah-53/

we've dealt with your delusions before.......in Isaiah 53 the servant suffered for our transgressions, which the nation of Israel never did........you can only pretend that the Hebrew text MUST be translated to mean the exact opposite of what it states.......that is a position the unfortunate atheist is often reduced to......
 
Sorry, I forgot I was responding to an asshole.

I DO NOT KNOW IF THERE ARE GODS OR NOT...and neither do you.

I DO KNOW that you are just blindly guessing.

Can you understand that? If not, just ask a high schooler to explain it.





Sure.

And if the so-called lies were about Zeus...Zeus would have been the inspiration.

Jesus H. Christ. Do you people even think?

The only difference between this, and other posts of yours, is you called me an asshole, instead of a cocksucker, grow up, open your eyes, and let God show you the light child.

You are a broken record!
 
The only difference between this, and other posts of yours, is you called me an asshole, instead of a cocksucker, grow up, open your eyes, and let God show you the light child.

You are a broken record!

YOU are the broken record.

You blindly guess there is a god...you blindly guess the Bible tells you what the god is like and what pleases and offends it...and you blindly guess your blind guesses are a result of the inspired word of the god you blindly guess exists.

You insult logic.
 
YOU are the broken record.

You blindly guess there is a god...you blindly guess the Bible tells you what the god is like and what pleases and offends it...and you blindly guess your blind guesses are a result of the inspired word of the god you blindly guess exists.

You insult logic.

Broken record, try something new!
 
There's lots of thought in there. You ought to consider "thought" rather than that bullshit that runs your life.

There's lots of lack of thought in there. You ought to consider lack of "thought" like I do rather than that inspired word of the God of the universe, that runs your life.[/QUOTE]
 
Broken record, try something new!

Not a broken record.

The truth.


You blindly guess there is a god...you blindly guess the Bible tells you what the god is like and what pleases and offends it...and you blindly guess your blind guesses are a result of the inspired word of the god you blindly guess exists.


Your argument is pathetic.
 
There's lots of lack of thought in there. You ought to consider lack of "thought" like I do rather than that inspired word of the God of the universe, that runs your life.

Now you are starting to quack...and to crack.

The going is getting tough.

You are not up to the job.
 
Not a broken record.

The truth.


You blindly guess there is a god...you blindly guess the Bible tells you what the god is like and what pleases and offends it...and you blindly guess your blind guesses are a result of the inspired word of the god you blindly guess exists.


Your argument is pathetic.

Are you a parrot, seriously, your argument is flawed and repetitive. You got no substance son!
 
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