What made Putin do it?

T

Tranquillus in Exile

New member
His main stated reason is that Russia is threatened by Ukraine, which he says has been run by Nazis ever since his man Yanukovych was chased out in 2014. There have been two presidential and two parliamentary elections since then, but the Nazis and Nato rigged them. Also, Ukraine is rightfully part of Russia (much as Portugal is rightfully part of Spain, I suppose). This is the story that Russians have been told, and many believe it.

Whether Putin believes all, part or none of the above, he evidently thought taking over Ukraine would be easy. His advisers aka yes-men didn’t disabuse him (they may be regretting it now: several of them are in jail).

I don’t think Putin remotely anticipated that it would be so difficult or that he would get so much blowback. He simply assumed it would be more of the same, like Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, Crimea, etc. True, the Chechen war was long and brutal, but it was a purely internal matter and the West looked the other way.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

Trying to grab Ukraine is by far the biggest miscalculation of Putin’s career. When Russians learn more about what really happened, it may spell конец - the end.
 
Putin wants the grain, resources, and oil that Ukraine has. Wars are about money and power. Putin wants more. He would not be doing this over some phony ass nazi claim. Russia was under no threat from Ukraine or NATO. He is also thinking globally as the statement that they will be helping Trump again in 2024 tells you.
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
His main stated reason is that Russia is threatened by Ukraine, which he says has been run by Nazis ever since his man Yanukovych was chased out in 2014. There have been two presidential and two parliamentary elections since then, but the Nazis and Nato rigged them. Also, Ukraine is rightfully part of Russia (much as Portugal is rightfully part of Spain, I suppose). This is the story that Russians have been told, and many believe it.

Whether Putin believes all, part or none of the above, he evidently thought taking over Ukraine would be easy. His advisers aka yes-men didn’t disabuse him (they may be regretting it now: several of them are in jail).

I don’t think Putin remotely anticipated that it would be so difficult or that he would get so much blowback. He simply assumed it would be more of the same, like Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, Crimea, etc. True, the Chechen war was long and brutal, but it was a purely internal matter and the West looked the other way.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

Trying to grab Ukraine is by far the biggest miscalculation of Putin’s career. When Russians learn more about what really happened, it may spell конец - the end.
Click to expand...

kind of like dems trying to introduce pedo grooming into public schools?
 
Putin thinks the December 1991 accord between Yeltsin, and the regional leaders of Belarus and Ukraine was an illegal coup against the traditional and long standing greater Slavic Russia.

He considers this 1991 accord engineered by Yelstin to have been nothing more than a coup to get rid of Gorbachev. In Vlad's mind, it was a tragic humiliation of Russia, and stranded the Russian-speaking diaspora behind the borders of fake countries.

It was a historical wrong, in his mind, that he has spent two decades plotting to reverse.
 
I keep calling it a "war of nostalgia," because that's what it is. Putin has expressed that Ukraine was "the crown jewel that was lost." And he certainly pines for the days when the Soviet Union was intact and feared around the globe.

It's as big a miscalculation as I can recall in modern times. He thought he'd roll in and take the country in a few days - similar to Cheney's remarks about Iraq taking 6 months. Leaders never seem to learn. War opens up a Pandora's Box of negative outcomes and possibilities - it should be avoided at all costs.
 
BartenderElite said:
I keep calling it a "war of nostalgia," because that's what it is. Putin has expressed that Ukraine was "the crown jewel that was lost." And he certainly pines for the days when the Soviet Union was intact and feared around the globe.

It's as big a miscalculation as I can recall in modern times. He thought he'd roll in and take the country in a few days - similar to Cheney's remarks about Iraq taking 6 months. Leaders never seem to learn. War opens up a Pandora's Box of negative outcomes and possibilities - it should be avoided at all costs.
Click to expand...

so we should probably do a "take the donbas and be done"?

I think that's amenable to all.
 
Cypress said:
Putin thinks the December 1991 accord between Yeltsin, and the regional leaders of Belarus and Ukraine was an illegal coup against the traditional and long standing greater Slavic Russia.

He considers this 1991 accord engineered by Yelstin to have been nothing more than a coup to get rid of Gorbachev. In Vlad's mind, it was a tragic humiliation of Russia, and stranded the Russian-speaking diaspora behind the borders of fake countries.

It was a historical wrong, in his mind, that he has spent two decades plotting to reverse.
Click to expand...

Yeltsin gave him Russia on a platter
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
His main stated reason is that Russia is threatened by Ukraine, which he says has been run by Nazis ever since his man Yanukovych was chased out in 2014. There have been two presidential and two parliamentary elections since then, but the Nazis and Nato rigged them. Also, Ukraine is rightfully part of Russia (much as Portugal is rightfully part of Spain, I suppose). This is the story that Russians have been told, and many believe it.

Whether Putin believes all, part or none of the above, he evidently thought taking over Ukraine would be easy. His advisers aka yes-men didn’t disabuse him (they may be regretting it now: several of them are in jail).

I don’t think Putin remotely anticipated that it would be so difficult or that he would get so much blowback. He simply assumed it would be more of the same, like Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, Crimea, etc. True, the Chechen war was long and brutal, but it was a purely internal matter and the West looked the other way.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

Trying to grab Ukraine is by far the biggest miscalculation of Putin’s career. When Russians learn more about what really happened, it may spell конец - the end.
Click to expand...

Putin has told you and told the Russian people that Russia is at war with the West. What he has not said is that we are in the ramp up of at least a cold war between the East and the West, only China has not yet formerly entered it yet. The really big question is what does India do, will they decide to join the East? It looks increasingly likely.

The Aim is to destroy the West, which is already imploiding, now is the time to push.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Putin has told you and told the Russian people that Russia is at war with the West. What he has not said is that we are in the ramp up of at least a cold war between the East and the West, only China has not yet formerly entered it yet. The really big question is what does India do, will they decide to join the East? It looks increasingly likely.

The Aim is to destroy the West, which is already imploiding, now is the time to push.
Click to expand...

Putin's military can't even defeat a smaller, weaker, less well armed Ukrainian military. They even had to beat a retreat back to Belarus after the Ukranians decisively defeated them in the Battle of Kyiv.

I don't think NATO is quaking in fear of the supposedly vaunted Russian military. And economic sanctions are going to reduce Russia to a third rate economic power with a national GDP on a par with Spain.
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
His main stated reason is that Russia is threatened by Ukraine, which he says has been run by Nazis ever since his man Yanukovych was chased out in 2014. There have been two presidential and two parliamentary elections since then, but the Nazis and Nato rigged them. Also, Ukraine is rightfully part of Russia (much as Portugal is rightfully part of Spain, I suppose). This is the story that Russians have been told, and many believe it.

Whether Putin believes all, part or none of the above, he evidently thought taking over Ukraine would be easy. His advisers aka yes-men didn’t disabuse him (they may be regretting it now: several of them are in jail).

I don’t think Putin remotely anticipated that it would be so difficult or that he would get so much blowback. He simply assumed it would be more of the same, like Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, Crimea, etc. True, the Chechen war was long and brutal, but it was a purely internal matter and the West looked the other way.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

Trying to grab Ukraine is by far the biggest miscalculation of Putin’s career. When Russians learn more about what really happened, it may spell конец - the end.
Click to expand...
History repeating itself.

Putin references the 1939 'Winter War' with Finland (also a threat...lmao) as a similar 'correction' of past Soviet policies.
 
Cypress said:
Putin's military can't even defeat a smaller, weaker, less well armed Ukrainian military. They even had to beat a retreat back to Belarus after the Ukranians decisively defeated them in the Battle of Kyiv.

I don't think NATO is quaking in fear of the supposedly vaunted Russian military. And economic sanctions are going to reduce Russia to a third rate economic power with a national GDP on a par with Spain.
Click to expand...

The Chinese and the Russians and all of their friends and future friends have no intention of letting it get to military confrontation. Economic sanctions have destroyed globalization and will decimate the West as the global famine and energy shortages kick in.....both of which are caused by idiotic Western policy as well as the idiotic sanctions against Russia, and soon China.

America does not make very much stuff anymore, China has us by the balls.
 
Cypress said:
Putin's military can't even defeat a smaller, weaker, less well armed Ukrainian military. They even had to beat a retreat back to Belarus after the Ukranians decisively defeated them in the Battle of Kyiv.

I don't think NATO is quaking in fear of the supposedly vaunted Russian military. And economic sanctions are going to reduce Russia to a third rate economic power with a national GDP on a par with Spain.
Click to expand...
Eventually.

How much damage will be done in the meantime?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The Chinese and the Russians and all of their friends and future friends have no intention of letting it get to military confrontation. Economic sanctions have destroyed globalization and will decimate the West as the global famine and energy shortages kick in.....both of which are caused by idiotic Western policy as well as the idiotic sanctions against Russia, and soon China.

America does not make very much stuff anymore, China has us by the balls.
Click to expand...

You have been pooping your diapers for six months about how scary the Russians are.

Their supposedly vaunted military cannot even defeat the third-rate army of a small eastern European nation.

I doubt your predictions on china are any more reliable than your predictions on Russia were
 
Cypress said:
You have been pooping your diapers for six months about how scary the Russians are.

Their supposedly vaunted military cannot even defeat the third-rate army of a small eastern European nation.

I doubt your predictions on china are any more reliable than your predictions on Russia were
Click to expand...

You clearly have major reading comprehension issues.
 
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