While the Chimp was Ruining America's Hard Won Stature.....

Cypress said:
sf,

I'm not saying that China is on the verge, or ever will, exceed the soft power of the U.S.

But, the trends are going the opposite way that they should (from our perspective). Bush has bullied and antagonized the world. While China has quietly gone around the world investing in, and giving foreign aid, to developing countries.
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Tax, where has the U.S. not given foreign aid that you believe we should have?
 
Superfreak said:
Also, China hasn't "quietly" gone around investing.... it has been quite apparent for over a decade now... and not just in developing countries. The mainsteam media just doesn't cover the business and economic world as much as they do blowjobs, sex tapes, dui's, etc...

If you have access to Bloomberg... it is probably one of the last vestiges of good business reporting that remains.
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What I mean by "quietly" investing, is that it's not on the radar. Unless I watch BBC or something, I would be totally unaware of the vast reach of chinese diplomacy and investment.

Also, they are not being as judgemental as bush. While the bush admin and their supporters go around bashing leftist leaders in latin america, and formenting coups against them, China doesn't give a shit about judging these goverment. It's just business to them. Money power and influence. I don't think they have a messianic and ideological filter like the Bushies have.
 
"What I mean by "quietly" investing, is that it's not on the radar. Unless I watch BBC or something, I would be totally unaware of the vast reach of chinese diplomacy and investment. "

Watch Bloomberg if you have the opportunity. Almost all business news and will cover this more effectively. But you are correct in that it most certainly isn't covered by the mainstream media.

You are also correct in that the Chinese are not as judgemental. As long as they get their oil contracts, they could care less how many people the Sudanese government kills. As long as they can oppress their own population they do not care if others do the same.

Be very cautious in thinking the Chinese do not have imperialistic desires. They simply think longer term than we do. They are not as impatient as the "results NOW" mentality that most Americans have. It may take them a decade, but that is nothing relative to the long history of the Chinese people.
 
"I guess many forget that Bush cut off aid to several countries for not joining his "coalition"."

Do you ever have anything relevant to add? Or do you just thrive off of your tired one liners?

The US still gives more aid than any other country out there. Including China.
 
cawacko said:
Tax, where has the U.S. not given foreign aid that you believe we should have?
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I think we give close to half our foreign aid to Israel and Egypt. Those two countries together probably represent a fraction of 1% of the world's population.

Throw in all the supplemental spending on aid for iraq, and I would guess that, proportionally, almost all of our foreign aid goes to three countries: Iraq, Israel, Egypt.


This does not seem like a wise and prudent distribution of foreign aid to me.
 
"I think we give close to half our foreign aid to Israel and Egypt. "

I'd like to see the numbers to back that statement up. I do not have the numbers, but I doubt it is anywhere close to half. I would be shocked if it were anywhere close to 20%.
 
I was wrong SF.

I totally low-balled the guestimate on aid to israel and egypt. Those two countries alone acount for two-thirds of U.S. foreign aid. Add in Iraq, and it's probably close to 100%, on a total dollar basis.

Add in the fact, that a lot of foreign aid goes to drug interdiction programs, and, proportionally, not much U.S. foreign aid is spent on economic development, poverty, or environmental issues:


While the amount of aid from some countries such as the US might look very generous in sheer dollar terms (ignoring the percentage issue for the moment), the World Bank also points out that at the World Economic Forum in New York, February 2002, “[US Senator Patrick] Leahy noted that two-thirds of US government aid goes to only two countries: Israel and Egypt. Much of the remaining third is used to promote US exports or to fight a war against drugs that could only be won by tackling drug abuse in the United States.”

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
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I saw that site too when I googled it.... but I haven't found where it breaks out the aid by country. Also, this is only looking at US government aid and not total US aid.
 
Here might be a good place to look to find out where our foreign aid is spent.

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/31987.pdf

We give aid to over 150 nations around the world.

Here is a portion that puts to lie that the amount of aid is what builds "good feelings" toward the US:

By nearly all measures, the amount of foreign aid provided by the United States
declined for several decades but has grown in the past few years. After hitting an alltime
low in the mid1990s, total foreign assistance (but excluding Iraq reconstruction)
for FY2003/2004, in real terms, has been larger than any two-year period since the
mid-1980s. The 0.2% of U.S. gross national product represented by foreign aid
obligations the past two years, however, is among the smallest amounts in the last
half-century. The United States is the largest international economic aid donor in
dollar terms but is the smallest contributor among the major donor governments
when calculated as a percent of gross national income.
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Anyway, go to the source.
 
good find damo. It backs up everything that was in my posts, and the link I provided:

Almost all of our aid, on a total dollar basis, goes to three countries: Iraq, Israel, and Egypt.

And our other main focus of foreign aid is on drug interdiction (and counter terrorism)

Proportionally, very little of our aid is directed to economic development, poverty, water projects, or environmental issues.


In 2004, the United States is providing some form of foreign assistance to about 150 countries. Israel and Egypt continue, as they have since the late 1970s, as the largest recipients, although Iraq, receiving over $20 billion for reconstruction activities since mid-2003, is the biggest recipient in FY2004. The importance of Latin America counter-narcotics efforts is also evident, with Bolivia, Peru, and more recently, Colombia, among the top U.S. aid recipients. The impact of the terroristattacks on September 11, 2001, and the subsequent use of foreign aid to support the war on terrorism is clearly seen in the country-aid allocations for FY2004.A fghanistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, and Indonesia are key partners in the war onterrorism.
 
Thanks Damo.

According to that, you are correct Cypress in that ex Iraq about 50-60% of US Government aid goes to Israel and Egypt. Of course from your site....

"Nonetheless, it is interesting to note for example, per latest estimates, Americans privately give at least $34 billion overseas"

That $34 billion is twice what the US government gives in direct aid.
 
Superfreak said:
"I think we give close to half our foreign aid to Israel and Egypt. "

I'd like to see the numbers to back that statement up. I do not have the numbers, but I doubt it is anywhere close to half. I would be shocked if it were anywhere close to 20%.
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but my statemnet about Bush cutting off aid to countries for not joining his coalition ? Please explain how my statement was not relevant as you stated, considering the recent turn of this thread please.
 
Of course our "foreign aid has increased lately. How many of the coalition of the willing have we "paid off" ?
How much did we pay Pakistan not to kick us out ? The airbase deal remember ?
I figure most all of that increase is war related.
 
uscitizen said:
but my statemnet about Bush cutting off aid to countries for not joining his coalition ? Please explain how my statement was not relevant as you stated, considering the recent turn of this thread please.
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Can you name any countries that we have cut aid off to as you claim?
 
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