Whiney or right ?

leaningright said:
That's true, but who was responsible for taking Him to the Romans. The only reason they took Him there was because they couldn't pass a death sentence themselves.......and that's what they wanted....."Crucify Him!!!"
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that's right. took tow to tango on this one. Pialte didn'tto stop it cuz he probably feared a riot; better to kill one innocent thatn to have a laod of death and destruction by doing the right thing......it wudda made him look bad; sound familiar?
 
Damocles said:
The death of Christ was planned. Without the sacrifice your forgiveness would never have been acheived...

At least read your book. The "traitor" was ordered to do what he did... He predicted it earlier speaking of the temple to be rebuilt in three days. The idea that somebody should be punished for what was ordered and planned is a bit beyond me. I can't quite understand the concept of that.
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judas wasn't ordered to betray jesus. jesus let him know that he knodew what he was up to, and he went and did it anyway.....jesus kn ew what judas was going to do; he didn't order it.
 
The romans were by their law the only ones who could carry out the sentence. The Jewish church leaders had to get the Romans to do it for them.
 
uscitizen said:
The romans were by their law the only ones who could carry out the sentence. The Jewish church leaders had to get the Romans to do it for them.
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not necessarily true; the new testament talks of the jews preparing to stone the adultress....so it seems that the jews could indeed carry out the death sentence.

the jewish leadership wanted to blame the romans so the people wouldn't rebel against them for killing a popular 'rabbi'. pilate was smart; he didn't want the blame on him, so he washed his hands; thus each could blame the other for the killing and hope that in the confusion, the end result would not be so bad for each of them. it turned out better than they had hoped, since it seemed to scare the living crap out of the rest of the popualtion who decided to stay away from anything jesus after that; the apostles went into hiding cuz they knew they couldn;t trust the jews or the romans!!!

both te romans and the jewish leadership got what they wanted out of the deal.................
 
another point, should the USA apologize to the American Indians for taking this land from them...may times for many broken treaties ?
Or did they do that and I missed it ?
 
I have been thinking about it, the good that would come from a modern day apology from the government would be an acknoledgement that it was wrong!
 
uscitizen said:
another point, should the USA apologize to the American Indians for taking this land from them...may times for many broken treaties ?
Or did they do that and I missed it ?
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I don't know about the indians.

Our government did finally apologize, for interning japanese-americans in concentration camps.
 
uscitizen said:
another point, should the USA apologize to the American Indians for taking this land from them...may times for many broken treaties ?
Or did they do that and I missed it ?
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Yea, I want my land back....;)

To address Damo's point, I do know what the book says which is precisely why I don't think an apology is in order.
 
HipLew said:
judas wasn't ordered to betray jesus. jesus let him know that he knodew what he was up to, and he went and did it anyway.....jesus kn ew what judas was going to do; he didn't order it.
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I don't care how you want to see it. 'Go and do what you MUST do...' is an order...
 
nope. he was telling judas he knew his thoughts; that judas thought that he had to do it for whatever his reasons were.......
 
HipLew said:
nope. he was telling judas he knew his thoughts; that judas thought that he had to do it for whatever his reasons were.......
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Nope. You assign an unexplained motive. Nobody knew Christ's mind. The words were clear, he was ordered to leave and do what he did.

To me his actions appear way more like somebody forced to do something he never wanted to do. Despondent from losing a friend, a teacher, etc...

So, you can assign some motive above and beyond the words, I prefer to use the actual words and assume that Christ knew what he was saying. He told him to do what must be done in order that the sacrifice be made to save you.
 
Needless to say it is pointless to argue about it. Without their actions your redemption never would be. To say it was unplanned, surprise, negates the prayer in Gesthemane... He knew what was to come, knew it was necessary, told the person who would betray him to do it, even his closest knowing who would betray him did nothing...

Each step was necessary for your redemption, according to that book, the idea that the plan took place and worked so that you were saved should be enough for y'all rather than punish those who acted as necessary for your soul to reach Paradise.
 
What Constantine did is becomeing undone as other "books" of the bible become known about. What will this mean for the future of Christianity ?
 
Almost nothing. Most Christians believe that the Bible book choices were guided by the hand of God and that only those books included are true... Therefore such new additions become sidelined.
 
Damocles said:
Almost nothing. Most Christians believe that the Bible book choices were guided by the hand of God and that only those books included are true... Therefore such new additions become sidelined.
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This Christian believes that the books included (and subsequent revisions thereto) were guided by the hands of men with political motives, and that exclusion is not an indication of falsity.
 
Troglodyte27 said:
This Christian believes that the books included (and subsequent revisions thereto) were guided by the hands of men with political motives, and that exclusion is not an indication of falsity.
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Then you would end up far more Gnostic than most Christians, after reading the excluded texts... Welcome to Judeo-Christian Buddhism...
 
In my personal opinion, I believe it stupid to assume that politics and mans power plays had no hand in the structure and content of the bible.
 
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