With racism and bigotry, you got it.
white supremacy shaped American Christianity
- Thread starter Guno צְבִי
- Start date
With racism and bigotry, you got it.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
Okay. I will assume that "people of color" is defined as anyone who is not white skinned, correct? Therefore, blacks, latinos, native americans, asians, etc. are all included in that term. Then, I will assume that the term "whites" covers anyone who is white skinned and typically of European descent (this excludes albinos and other abnormalities). Correct?
If given the above, then I must ask if you are merely providing an example here, or if you are asserting that racism only goes in the direction of "whites towards people of color". Can it also go in the opposite direction of "people of color towards whites"?
Well, like I said earlier, simply noticing racism and calling it out is not being racist. However, if that action of "calling it out" requires the person who is "calling it out" to THEMSELVES construct a racist model and then project that racist model onto others, then it is that person who constructed the racist model who is being the racist, not the person who they are "calling out".
No, it hinges on logic. My offered definition of racism shows the reasoning behind racism and why it is fallacious reasoning. Your offered definition ("original racism" as you are referring to it here) needs more clarification before I can directly comment on it, although you seem to be committing the racism fallacy within that very definition of racism, but I will allow for further clarification...
The form has stayed the same. Nothing has changed about the Compositional Error Fallacy. Logic is a closed functional system.
Hatred is not racism. Rejection of others is not racism, either. Both things might be contributing factors behind the intent to be racist, but they have nothing to do with racism in and of themselves.
Your use of "others" here confuses me, given your definition of racism from above, which seemed to flow "one way only".
There is no "stretching". I am putting the 'racist' label onto whoever happens to be creating the racist model. It might be somebody who said something racist and is getting called out for it. It might also be somebody attempting to project their own racism onto others.
It did. The whole thing was chocked full of racism, as I explained.
That wasn't a mistake. He is aware that they are American citizens. He is making reference to the governments/economies of the countries which they (and/or their heritage) are from, and that if America is so horrible, that they should go back to those countries and "show us how it is done" instead of fundamentally trying to change America into those countries.
Ignorance is not racism. Also, your definition from above made no mention of ignorance. It only made reference to "whites put[ting] down people of color".
That's not what the statement was about. Trump is fully aware that they are American citizens, and recognizes them as such.
Nope. That is your racist model that you are projecting onto Trump; that is not Trump's model.
Again, that is YOUR model, not Trump's. You are the one being the racist here.
Again, these are YOUR racist models that you have constructed. You are simply projecting them onto the President. YOU are being the racist here. The President made absolutely NO mention of separating his whiteness from her blackness, nor did he call for national boundaries to separate them. He was instead speaking of government types and economies.
Your position is rejecting logic. It is committing various logical fallacies (compositional errors, projections, redefinitions, ... ...)
There are no "the facts" or "alternative facts", just facts. And facts are not universal truths, nor are they proofs. Facts are simply 'shorthand predicate'. They are meant to speed up conversations so that arguments don't have to be formed for every little thing that is said. If a predicate is agreed upon, then it is a fact, whether or not the predicate is actually true.
Again, no "alternative facts"... just logic. The Compositional Error Fallacy hasn't changed at all. Logic is a closed functional system. If the fallacy involves people as the class and a genetic trait as the property, then one is being racist.
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saltydancin
Verified User
As if some compulsive Christiananality pedophilia mentality game of Klues Klucks duh Klans not so master race white supremacy to maintain this Christian Nation tradition of thieving US Constitution - old glory - old testament - absentee voting ballot arsonists master plan would even be accepted by those not so cross conditioned way beyond therapy still enduring every form of tyranny over the mind of man lynching enforcement.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello gfm7175,
Making no such assertions, but don't really see much racism going the other way. Here's why. People who have felt discriminated against know how ugly that feels so they tend to want to try to create a world where nobody has to feel that. Fair and equal treatment is the goal. They don't want to be as ugly as the perpetrators of the racism which has been directed at them. They desire to be free of the ugliness, not immersed in it from either side.
I see what is going on. It is an attempt to muddy up the waters of 'what is racism.' It won't work. Caring and compassionate people are going to call it out when it appears. The attempt to call the callers racist is the same as the younger sibling simply repeating everything the older one says. That never worked because it is thoughtless and ineffective. A desperation argument in the glaring lack of a good one.
That was a dumb argument. It incorrectly assumes they are trying to turn America into those places, when no such desire has been expressed.
The ignorance is the act of ignoring the fact that the referenced individuals are Americans. Perhaps that was an incorrect usage of the word. There is no word for the act of purposefully ignoring something, which is different from simply not knowing.
And that is the point where you go full circle and simply call me what I am calling Trump, (without cause) because you really have no defense for Trump. I should be offended, but this wildly desperate fantasy is so off-base that I understand considerate people would never agree. It only weakens your argument to persist. It really is pathetic. And it is not appreciated.
No, I am just going along with national sentiment. A recent poll indicates a majority now consider the president to be a racist.
Making no such assertions, but don't really see much racism going the other way. Here's why. People who have felt discriminated against know how ugly that feels so they tend to want to try to create a world where nobody has to feel that. Fair and equal treatment is the goal. They don't want to be as ugly as the perpetrators of the racism which has been directed at them. They desire to be free of the ugliness, not immersed in it from either side.
I see what is going on. It is an attempt to muddy up the waters of 'what is racism.' It won't work. Caring and compassionate people are going to call it out when it appears. The attempt to call the callers racist is the same as the younger sibling simply repeating everything the older one says. That never worked because it is thoughtless and ineffective. A desperation argument in the glaring lack of a good one.
That was a dumb argument. It incorrectly assumes they are trying to turn America into those places, when no such desire has been expressed.
The ignorance is the act of ignoring the fact that the referenced individuals are Americans. Perhaps that was an incorrect usage of the word. There is no word for the act of purposefully ignoring something, which is different from simply not knowing.
And that is the point where you go full circle and simply call me what I am calling Trump, (without cause) because you really have no defense for Trump. I should be offended, but this wildly desperate fantasy is so off-base that I understand considerate people would never agree. It only weakens your argument to persist. It really is pathetic. And it is not appreciated.
No, I am just going along with national sentiment. A recent poll indicates a majority now consider the president to be a racist.
saltydancin
Verified User
Goniff animated blonde, titillating & bouncy as if also Christiananality organized business that's only to be looked at & revered; or get learned the "serve the Pope or die" version of one nation under God.
evince
Truthmatters
then don't answer the threads asshole
do you have any idea just how stupid it is to rush to a thread to answer it only to claim you are NOT interested?
jeeeeze these russo bot holes quality is falling fast
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
The article linked in the OP was full of examples of "racism going the other way". Any race of person can be a racist... White, Black, Pacific Islander, you name it... Is your definition of racism "white people putting down people of color", or is it something else? Can you provide the precise definition you are using? I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind your labeling of someone as a 'racist'...
Discrimination is not due to racism (in most cases). Any sort of 'age limit/requirement' or 'height limit/requirement' that is placed on something is a form of discrimination. Is that a bad thing? I'd say not. Sure, people who don't meet those requirements don't feel good at the time, but it is ultimately for their own good (safety). Plus, people need to feel bad sometimes because it helps them to distinguish good from bad. It helps them to gain knowledge of good and evil. Have I enjoyed my worst experiences?? Heck no... I'm still trying to break bad habits and mental blocks/effects which all stem from those bad experiences. But I am ultimately thankful for them, because they have given me insight into some true evils and have helped me to gain knowledge of good and evil.
Is 'equal' always a good thing? Would a 2yr old being able to ride in a a roller coaster at Six Flags just like a typical 20 year old be a good thing? Would allowing six 400+ pound fat asses to be able to ride inside of a small boat just like anybody half their weight (or more) be a good thing? Equality, as in "we are all humans, no matter our differing genetic traits", is a good thing. Equality, as I have described above, is not a good thing.
Some victims wish to not inflict what they've experienced onto others... Other victims do.
No, that's what you have done by your redefinition of the term. My definition of the term is very specific and consistent, due to its grounding in logic.
You can't call out what you can't consistently and specifically define.
Nothing of the sort. It is simply making use of the same logically grounded definition. It is calling a racist whoever commits the compositional error fallacy (using people as the class and a genetic trait as the property). If the "caller" forms a racist model and then projects that model onto the person they are "calling out", then the "caller" is the racist, since the racist model belongs to and was constructed by the "caller". The "caller" is committing the racism fallacy.
Wishing to enact laws/policies that those places have (such as socialism) is trying to turn America into those places...
I'm just trying to pinpoint down your definition of 'racism', since here you added in an ignorance factor which wasn't present in your original definition of "whites put[ting] down people of color".
It wasn't without cause. It is right in line with my post specifically explaining what racism is and why it is racism. Racism is a specific form of the compositional error fallacy. If the person screaming "you're a fucking racist!" is the person who is constructing the racist model (committing that specific form of the compositional error fallacy), then it is the screamer who is the racist, not the one who he is attempting to project his own racist model onto. The other person simply wasn't being racist to begin with.
Appeal to Popularity Fallacy. False Authority Fallacy.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
are your posts generated by a computer gibberish writer....
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
I'm not interested in the promotion of nor engaging in racism/bigotry. I am, however, interested in turning on the little light bulb inside people's minds regarding this issue, so I replied to the OP and expanded upon my position when asked to.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
That's about all I got out of his English-esque ramblings...
I was like WTF...
saltydancin
Verified User
Seems could reasonably expect computer generated denials reminiscent of those WW II Nazi war criminals these Catholics selective memories are. Leave it to their super egos of a not so master race lynching enforcement for a stolen vote from Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate cops where the accused doesn't even vote & hasn't since first 2 absentee voting ballots were stolen at university; but that doesn't stop their Christiananality pedophilia business from lynching the accused for 9/11 & then for the assassination of JFK in the same breath; being those Islamophobia pedophiles regardless of the accused not even aware of the Catholic Church "serve the Pope or die" cross is higher than the US flag national religion propaganda in being at the National Archives & SCOTUS the time of their megalomaniacal killing white nationalism wallowing.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
seems like a clear "yes"....
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
Christian Complicity With Racism
While many Christian traditions and other religions have varied and valuable narratives, Protestants, especially evangelicals, have written some of the most well-known narratives of racism in the United States. Other religious groups, such as white Catholics, have certainly contributed to racism, but the narrative that unfolds in the following pages focuses on Protestant churches. Methodists, Baptists, and Presbyterians all have a central, sometimes repressive, place in the story of race in America. No matter which faith tradition or denomination is at the forefront of discussion, racism extends across sectarian lines.
In light of these definitions, it is accurate to say that many white people have been complicit with racism. Although there have been notable exceptions, and racial progress in this country could not have happened without allies across the color line, white people have historically had the power to construct a social caste system based on skin color, a system that placed people of African descent at the bottom.
White men and women have used tools like money, politics, and terrorism to consolidate their power and protect their comfort at the expense of black people. Christians participated in this system of white supremacy—a concept that identifies white people and white culture as normal and superior
https://www.evangelicalsforsocialaction.org/book-excerpt/christian-complicity-racism/
While many Christian traditions and other religions have varied and valuable narratives, Protestants, especially evangelicals, have written some of the most well-known narratives of racism in the United States. Other religious groups, such as white Catholics, have certainly contributed to racism, but the narrative that unfolds in the following pages focuses on Protestant churches. Methodists, Baptists, and Presbyterians all have a central, sometimes repressive, place in the story of race in America. No matter which faith tradition or denomination is at the forefront of discussion, racism extends across sectarian lines.
In light of these definitions, it is accurate to say that many white people have been complicit with racism. Although there have been notable exceptions, and racial progress in this country could not have happened without allies across the color line, white people have historically had the power to construct a social caste system based on skin color, a system that placed people of African descent at the bottom.
White men and women have used tools like money, politics, and terrorism to consolidate their power and protect their comfort at the expense of black people. Christians participated in this system of white supremacy—a concept that identifies white people and white culture as normal and superior
https://www.evangelicalsforsocialaction.org/book-excerpt/christian-complicity-racism/
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PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello gfm7175,
Nice try at putting words in my mouth but I did not define racism. Recall, this all began when I agreed with most of the nation that President Trump is a racist, and that it was a racist thing for him to say the 4 Congresswomen of color should go back where they came. That's my view. You disagree. You also have a penchant for giving Trump the benefit of the doubt. Your are in the minority on that. There is no point in playing semantics. I don't have a personal definition of racism. This definition from Webster is what I operate on: "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."
I think that happens in the movies more than in real life. Take Emma Gonzalez, for instance. Look at Gabby Giffords. Both of these women were victimized by senseless shootings. Have they advocated for or tried to exact revenge? No. Revenge is immature. They began movements to try to make sure that what happened to them does not happen to other people. Revenge might make for a good movie plot, but mature real life people understand that hurting others does not help them in any way. It just spreads more pain. It doesn't lessen it or make it go away.
I am sticking with the Webster definition.
That's the new right definition. We, the caring people of the world do not accept that.
That's a failed attempt to hold the 4 Congresswomen of color to words that you wrote, but they never actually said. I am properly rejecting that.
I never claimed that I have a unique definition of racism. The one in the dictionary suits me just fine. I would suggest just sticking with that, but I know that doesn't suit the new right penchant for redefining racism. I understand the right is quite famous for rewriting history, so it is not surprising that it is attempting to redefine racism. Anything but admit the President is a racist. btw, Trump is also a liar, a conman, a cheat, a misogynist, and a demagogue. He is very immature and has a short attention span. Trump is a sociopath. And he doesn't read books. He is not very good at vetting people or stories, either. Basically, he is a terrible President. And he is probably guilty of crimes. He probably would have been charged already if he were not President. You are free to support him in any way you like. That is your right. I oppose him and I am going to level any criticism I think applies. He is a racist.
Nice try at putting words in my mouth but I did not define racism. Recall, this all began when I agreed with most of the nation that President Trump is a racist, and that it was a racist thing for him to say the 4 Congresswomen of color should go back where they came. That's my view. You disagree. You also have a penchant for giving Trump the benefit of the doubt. Your are in the minority on that. There is no point in playing semantics. I don't have a personal definition of racism. This definition from Webster is what I operate on: "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."
I think that happens in the movies more than in real life. Take Emma Gonzalez, for instance. Look at Gabby Giffords. Both of these women were victimized by senseless shootings. Have they advocated for or tried to exact revenge? No. Revenge is immature. They began movements to try to make sure that what happened to them does not happen to other people. Revenge might make for a good movie plot, but mature real life people understand that hurting others does not help them in any way. It just spreads more pain. It doesn't lessen it or make it go away.
I am sticking with the Webster definition.
That's the new right definition. We, the caring people of the world do not accept that.
That's a failed attempt to hold the 4 Congresswomen of color to words that you wrote, but they never actually said. I am properly rejecting that.
I never claimed that I have a unique definition of racism. The one in the dictionary suits me just fine. I would suggest just sticking with that, but I know that doesn't suit the new right penchant for redefining racism. I understand the right is quite famous for rewriting history, so it is not surprising that it is attempting to redefine racism. Anything but admit the President is a racist. btw, Trump is also a liar, a conman, a cheat, a misogynist, and a demagogue. He is very immature and has a short attention span. Trump is a sociopath. And he doesn't read books. He is not very good at vetting people or stories, either. Basically, he is a terrible President. And he is probably guilty of crimes. He probably would have been charged already if he were not President. You are free to support him in any way you like. That is your right. I oppose him and I am going to level any criticism I think applies. He is a racist.
saltydancin
Verified User
How unfortunate for Catholic Church megalomaniacal to the victors go the spoils of writing history as far too late to whitewash it's mass murder in USA history. Looks like it'll be about time for another suicidal crusade of these super ego homicidal sociopsychopathic too dang lily brilliant white national religion farce with their cross conditioned way beyond therapy obsessive - compulsive avoidance - acceptance of anything other than the cross is higher than the flag godvernment of death.
Iolo/Penderyn
Verified User
Race slavery is like cancer - it spreads to the whole body given time. That's why American religion is so sick and why so may are still playing their grotesque gun games, whatever the cost in blood.
saltydancin
Verified User
Just as that Catholic Church crusade of "serve the Pope or die" after their vile & disgusting "man is God" slavery tradition of baptize thine eyes by urinations lynching enforcement.