Who's to blame for the Mortgage meltdown?

Who's to blame for the mortgage mess?

You know who the victims are. We name some of the villains in a credit crunch built on irresponsible subprime lending in the United States.

Excerpt: ” "Quite frankly, there was a race to lower standards to generate more loans… It was like kids in a candy store. You had to be a complete screw-up not to make money. There were basically no guidelines, no restrictions and no oversight."

No. 1: Alan Greenspan

In his best-selling book, Alan Greenspan describes how well he managed the economy during an "age of turbulence." Unfortunately, he's largely responsible for the current dose of it.

As chairman of the Fed, Greenspan took the federal funds rate down to 1% in 2003 and left it there for a year. Even as the Fed began raising rates, Greenspan's exceptionally low interest rates "planted the seeds for the housing bubble," says Robert Rodriguez, a money manager at First Pacific Advisors who saw the emerging subprime mess early on and has managed to dodge most of it so far.
Greenspan's role in the current mess doesn't stop there. He encouraged th

The use of adjustable-rate mortgages in a 2004 speech, which was "an insane, idiotic recommendation," says Rodriguez. The following year he endorsed subprime loans to help marginal borrowers get into houses. And true to his somewhat naive brand of Ayn Rand libertarianism, Greenspan dismissed calls for more oversight of the mortgage business. This gave free rein to our next culprits: greedy mortgage brokers who had no problem pushing inappropriate loans on borrowers so that they could reap lucrative fees.

No. 2: Countrywide CEO Angelo Mozilo

None of this would have been possible without the help of mortgage lenders willing to go along with the charade. There are many of them, but I'd cite Countrywide Financial (CFC, news, msgs) CEO Angelo Mozilo as one of the most egregious.

Mozilo acknowledged potential risks in the subprime market early on, but he continued to compete to maintain market share, even though the only way to do this was to water down loan underwriting standards like everyone else. "If the market was offering something, they wanted to offer it too," says Erin Swanson, a Morningstar (MORN, news, msgs) analyst who covers the stock.

Even though Mozilo made more than $20 million a year in salary and bonuses in 2004 and 2005, he wanted to book more profits, mainly by selling stock options, as Countrywide was riding high on the bubble. We know this because he took advantage of a special rule to set up an automatic selling program in his company's stock. Company documents show he realized $310 million in the three fiscal years ending in June 2007. If his agenda was to cash out personally, he had a good motive to play along with the subprime charade.

Countrywide declined to comment, but a company spokesman has told other media outlets that no one, including Mozilo, could have foreseen the events that led to the current problems with subprime-mortgage debt and that all of Mozilo stock sales complied with regulatory rules.

SNIP

No. 5: The ratings agencies

Money managers may have been blinded to problems with debt instruments backed by subprime mortgages because of their hunger for higher yields. But in missing the cues, they also got a hand from the credit-ratings agencies, which get paid to evaluate debt products and make a call on the likelihood of default. The three big ones are Standard & Poor's, Moody's Investors Service and Fitch Ratings.

"The rating agencies missed something, to be gracious about it," says Don Quigley, the co-portfolio manager of the Julius Baer Total Return Bond Fund (JBGIX). Part of the problem, says First Pacific Advisors' Rodriguez, is that rating these debt instruments was big business, and the ratings agencies were often getting paid for the ratings by the same people who were creating the debt instruments. So they might have been tempted to let their guard down when it came to weighing the likelihood of negative scenarios.

"As far back as 2004-2005 we were aware of questionable underwriting, potential fraud and limited documentation" in the home-mortgage industry, says Rodriguez. "These did not appear to be appropriately considered in the rating process." What's more, risk models used by the ratings agencies assumed continued home price appreciation that would allow marginal home buyers to refinance their loans when their monthly mortgage payments went up.

"We suspect that with so much money to be earned by originating, securitizing and rating, there were too many conflicts to take a very critical view of the process," says Rodriguez. The ratings agencies declined to comment.

No. 6: Mortgage brokers

Home buyers should have known better than to get into adjustable-rate loans they couldn't afford when interest rates reset higher. But I'd single out another party in the industry for the most blame: the mortgage brokers.
For mortgage brokers -- many of whom were independent operators in mom-and-pop shops -- the real-estate bubble was a real bonanza, and their greed got the better of them.

"Quite frankly, there was a race to lower standards to generate more loans," says a former mortgage broker with a major bank in the Chicago area. And for good reason: A merely "good" mortgage broker could easily take home $250,000 a year. But most of them were bringing in $500,000 to $750,000 as long as they cranked out enough loans -- and damn the consequences, says the former mortgage broker. "It was like kids in a candy store. You had to be a complete screw-up not to make money. There were basically no guidelines, no restrictions and no oversight."



http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/CompanyFocus/WhosToBlameForTheMortgageMess.aspx

Dont forget the idiot individuals who purchashed these mortgages and kept refinancing to the hilt, who got loans that could never be supported by the income they had.
 
no im not ignoring it. its the rout cause. banks gave people loans for the corner house with creative payment schemes when they could only afford the ranch in the back with a traditional loan..
if they had limited the loans to more traditional types then fewer people would have qualified, this is true. However homes would not have jumped leaps and bounds in retail price either, becasue there would have been fewer buyers, the demand would have been down....this in turn could have allowed others to get in and buy homes under the traditional methods.

Realtors SOLD these fiat loans too....made the retail price go up for homes they were selling, gave them a bigger cut in this whole home game.

It was a conspiracy to rape the consumer of sorts, without any of them having to even talk to eachother about it....

care
 
if they had limited the loans to more traditional types then fewer people would have qualified, this is true. However homes would not have jumped leaps and bounds in retail price either, becasue there would have been fewer buyers, the demand would have been down....this in turn could have allowed others to get in and buy homes under the traditional methods.

Realtors SOLD these fiat loans too....made the retail price go up for homes they were selling, gave them a bigger cut in this whole home game.......
care

Which is why I don't think anyone should be bailed out or even helped with federal funds or federally backed refinances. If the people still can't afford to refinance then clearly they bought way too much house and should down grade or rent. This is one time I think the market should be left alone and everyone who's getting burned now should learn a lesson from this.

If a person is the victim of fraud that's a different story, but from the stuff I've seen go on locally I have zero sympathy for most people who have gotten screwed over the 'mortgage meltdown'.
 
But Chap that ignores the fact that people could not have afforded and qualified for traditional loans in the amounts that they were borrowing and without the exotic loan packages the borrowers would never have qualified for such high loans.

Exotic loan packages? Please, the main problem is occuring in ARMs and I-only's. ARMs have been around for decades. It is the issuance of ARMs when interest rates were at 35 and 40 year lows that is absurd.

The lenders are to blame for offering ARMs and I-only mortgages to people who did not qualify for the 15 or 30 year fixed.

The borrowers are to blame for taking out loans they could not afford and for not understanding how the loan worked. If you do not understand the terms of the loan, that is YOUR fault... though the lender should have known it would bite them as well.

There are certainly cases where an exotic loan might have been confusing, but they are hardly the bulk of the problem.

To blame the Fed is ridiculous. They do not issue nor do they have the authority to regulate the mortgage industry. What exactly should Greenspan have done? The politicians in DC did nothing because they wanted to continue harping on the "more people own their own homes" bandwagon.
 
no doubt about that.. talked to my dad and brother in law on Sunday.. going to get a trust together and see about buying out some foreclosures and renting.. this is an astonishingly good time to buy.

Obviously it will depend on your local real estate markets, but in general, I would wait another year... it is very likely going to be an even better time to buy then. (IN MOST PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.... NOT ALL)
 
....The lenders are to blame for offering ARMs and I-only mortgages to people who did not qualify for the 15 or 30 year fixed.........The borrowers are to blame for taking out loans they could not afford and for not understanding how the loan worked. If you do not understand the terms of the loan, that is YOUR fault... though the lender should have known it would bite them as well............ [Strike]The politicians[/Strike] Bush....did nothing because [he] wanted to continue harping on the "more people own their own homes" bandwagon.

That's better.
 
That's better.

LOL... take the blinders off... the Dems enjoyed harping on it too... hence the non-partisan use of the word politician rather than a vain attempt to blame one party/individual. Because bottom line... none of the politicians in DC did anything to stop this. Contrary to the opinion of the kool-aid drinkers, getting a law passed is NOT the only way to take action.
 
Which is why I don't think anyone should be bailed out or even helped with federal funds or federally backed refinances. If the people still can't afford to refinance then clearly they bought way too much house and should down grade or rent. This is one time I think the market should be left alone and everyone who's getting burned now should learn a lesson from this.

If a person is the victim of fraud that's a different story, but from the stuff I've seen go on locally I have zero sympathy for most people who have gotten screwed over the 'mortgage meltdown'.

Can I get an AMEN!!!!
 
who gets hurt the most? Not the homeowner with zero equity, he should again be a renter.
The thousands of employees laid of due to shitty management at the banks and shareholders of the banks.
The homeowner with zero equity is back where he should be renting.
 
all i know is the balloon was a no brainer to me and i made most of it.
1) got house in 2002 with zero down.. and no pmi. actually got cash back. 260K
2) refinanced to 15year mortgage
3) in 2005 got a HELOC since it was rediculous that my house was appraising at 500K.. so figured ill get a line of credit for 250K.. why not.. but i never use it.

So now i got 10years left at 5% loan and 250k of false value guaranteed to me to buy rentals with if i so please.
 
if they had limited the loans to more traditional types then fewer people would have qualified, this is true.

care

AGAIN.... most of the problems are in traditional ARMs. The problem is that ARMs are horrible to buy when interest rates are low. It is also a problem that the borrower trys to borrow more than they can afford and the lender lets them.
 
Can I get an AMEN!!!!

Amen.
But I'm still not too clear on the plan to let people refinance into lower federally backed loans. If their credit is too risky for private mortgage companies to take over at a particular rate, why should the feds/indirectly me and you take on that risk?

And if I read one more gd sob story on the net or see one TV about another stupid couple that clearly couldn't afford what they were getting into and looking for gov't help, I'm going to scream.
 
Take a simple example.... in 2005 you could have gotten an ARM that was fixed for two years with adjustable rates thereafter. For the first two years on a $250k loan at 3% your mortgage payment is approx $1050. When rates reset at 5% your mortgage goes to approx $1350. Most people could not afford that 30% increase in their mortgage rate. Nothing exotic.... just idiots on one end and greedy bastards on the other.
 
Amen.
But I'm still not too clear on the plan to let people refinance into lower federally backed loans. If their credit is too risky for private mortgage companies to take over at a particular rate, why should the feds/indirectly me and you take on that risk?

And if I read one more gd sob story on the net or see one TV about another stupid couple that clearly couldn't afford what they were getting into and looking for gov't help, I'm going to scream.

I have no clue as to how the government "plan" works either. Also, totally agree on the need to cease with the sob stories.... because I may just go mental if I see another.... and I am not nice when I go mental.
 
Actually a ton of country wides prime customers are pissed and taking action.
The bail outs give them a fixed rate lower than the prime customers are paying which should be criminal. It's being done to hide the criminal activity of that freakishly tanned CEO at countrywide.
 
Take a simple example.... in 2005 you could have gotten an ARM that was fixed for two years with adjustable rates thereafter. For the first two years on a $250k loan at 3% your mortgage payment is approx $1050. When rates reset at 5% your mortgage goes to approx $1350. Most people could not afford that 30% increase in their mortgage rate. Nothing exotic.... just idiots on one end and greedy bastards on the other.


Agreed. But, as I indicated before, lots of times the idiots were told that they could just refinance after two years before the adjustable rate kicked in. Then they tried to refinance, were denied and were screwed.

Additionally, the compensation scheme for brokers was such that it was in the broker's interest to steer borrowers toward these types of loans even if they qualified for traditional fixed-rate loans. In essence, the broker is a used car sales man trying to screw the borrower over. Many borrowers don't view their mortgage guy as a used car salesman but they should.

Finally, the new rules restrict lenders and brokers from lending based on the borrower's ability to pay at the fixed rate, which is where the problem came up. Lenders wouldn't look to the adjusted rate to determine if the loan was worth making, after all, they'll sell it on the secondary market and it'll be out of their hands when the adjustable rate kicks in. The new rules require the lender to look at the adjustable rate to determine the borrower's ability to pay it back and prohibit making the loan where the borrower is not likely to be able to make payments at the fully indexed rate.
 
dung I believe it's more widespread than any would believe.
I had a guy at gmac try to give me a second mortgage for the down payment when I continued to tell him I had the cash, and he tried to bait and switch me on the rate.
This from a company doing business with our corp group and they knew it was all prime borrowers.
 
Agreed. But, as I indicated before, lots of times the idiots were told that they could just refinance after two years before the adjustable rate kicked in. Then they tried to refinance, were denied and were screwed.

Additionally, the compensation scheme for brokers was such that it was in the broker's interest to steer borrowers toward these types of loans even if they qualified for traditional fixed-rate loans. In essence, the broker is a used car sales man trying to screw the borrower over. Many borrowers don't view their mortgage guy as a used car salesman but they should.

Finally, the new rules restrict lenders and brokers from lending based on the borrower's ability to pay at the fixed rate, which is where the problem came up. Lenders wouldn't look to the adjusted rate to determine if the loan was worth making, after all, they'll sell it on the secondary market and it'll be out of their hands when the adjustable rate kicks in. The new rules require the lender to look at the adjustable rate to determine the borrower's ability to pay it back and prohibit making the loan where the borrower is not likely to be able to make payments at the fully indexed rate.


First paragraph... I am sure many are saying that they were told that, how many actually were is debatable. Bottom line, if they did not have it in writing then they are morons.

Second paragraph.... I am not aware of the differences in compensation of one type of loan vs. another. Do you have a piece on that? I would agree that any company that had that type of practice should pay a very heavy price... as should the employees who participated.

Third.... if the new rules require that a borrower qualify for the 30 year fixed in order to get any type of loan, then I am all for that. It wouldn't require that someone take the 30, but would help to ensure that the borrower could afford the home they were getting.
 
Agreed. But, as I indicated before, lots of times the idiots were told that they could just refinance after two years before the adjustable rate kicked in. Then they tried to refinance, were denied and were screwed.

Additionally, the compensation scheme for brokers was such that it was in the broker's interest to steer borrowers toward these types of loans even if they qualified for traditional fixed-rate loans. In essence, the broker is a used car sales man trying to screw the borrower over. Many borrowers don't view their mortgage guy as a used car salesman but they should.

Finally, the new rules restrict lenders and brokers from lending based on the borrower's ability to pay at the fixed rate, which is where the problem came up. Lenders wouldn't look to the adjusted rate to determine if the loan was worth making, after all, they'll sell it on the secondary market and it'll be out of their hands when the adjustable rate kicks in. The new rules require the lender to look at the adjustable rate to determine the borrower's ability to pay it back and prohibit making the loan where the borrower is not likely to be able to make payments at the fully indexed rate.

Side note to your car salesman comparrison... one other area people should be aware of is anyone selling a fixed or indexed annuity. These investments are NOT regulated like the rest of the investment industry. So be very cautious if someone offers one of those pieces of crap to you.
 
dung I believe it's more widespread than any would believe.
I had a guy at gmac try to give me a second mortgage for the down payment when I continued to tell him I had the cash, and he tried to bait and switch me on the rate.
This from a company doing business with our corp group and they knew it was all prime borrowers.

You should have....

1) Kicked him in the nuts

2) then asked him if he liked it... if he says no, then tell him neither do you.
 
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