Why capital gains should be taxed as income.

[Cancel 2016.2]

I asked if the for companies you mentioned are typical of those creating new jobs, not how they started. We all know the answer, so don't bother with further obfuscation.

Obfuscation? It is how EVERY large firm started. It is what many small firms aspire to do. It is the model.

No, you wish it were nonsense. Vulture Capitalists buy companies, fire thousands of employees and and send the remaining jobs overseas while saddling the company with debt and charging fees for their services. Net result; job loss.

Again... pure nonsense. The fact that you call them Vulture capitalists shows you have no interest in an honest discussion on this.

Yes it has been acknowledged that mature companies do not provide many new jobs, if any. Thank you for reinforcing my point.

LOL... it was the point I made very early on Dune. You should try to keep up.

Opinion, not capable of being substantiated.

It is not opinion, it is fact. Cap gains are taxed lower because the income of the corporation is already taxed. It is double taxation.

 

[The Dude]

Double taxation is satanic!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Not following. Are you talking about marginal taxes on the wealthy?

Yes and corporate taxes.

 

[Rune]

Obfuscation? It is how EVERY large firm started. It is what many small firms aspire to do. It is the model.

Again, for the apparently reading impaired, I did not ask how big companies started. I asked if they were the primary job creators. Since they are not, they should not be held up as the reason for reduced rates on capital gains.

Again... pure nonsense. The fact that you call them Vulture capitalists shows you have no interest in an honest discussion on this.

If it were nonsense you could readily refute it without resorting to being critical of my sarcasm: you can't so my comment stands.

LOL... it was the point I made very early on Dune. You should try to keep up.

It has been my point all along. You should try to pay attention.

It is not opinion, it is fact. Cap gains are taxed lower because the income of the corporation is already taxed. It is double taxation.

Not even close. Capital gains need not arise from corporate activity, hence your claim is total bullshit.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Again, for the apparently reading impaired, I did not ask how big companies started. I asked if they were the primary job creators. Since they are not, they should not be held up as the reason for reduced rates on capital gains. If it were nonsense you could readily refute it without resorting to being critical of my sarcasm: you can't so my comment stands. It has been my point all along. You should try to pay attention.

No Dune, that is not what the above portion of the discussion was about. You stated that poor people created jobs via demand. That is what I was referring to. But you ignored everything and got off on some side track. I stated in post two that I thought cap gains should be taxed as ordinary income. I explained the process that those large companies took to become large companies. Every company starts out with investors. The only way they can expand at that rate is via investment. Those starting out today with small companies that are looking to expand and grow are doing the same thing. Getting people to take a chance with their investment money on the business plan and product/idea. That is where small company growth comes from. They have to have a great idea/product coupled with a good business plan. Investors come in, the consumers get a taste for the product/idea and if it is a hit, demand increases. Which then leads to further jobs.

Not even close. Capital gains need not arise from corporate activity, hence your claim is total bullshit.

The above is so absolutely incorrect that it borders on desh level stupidity.

 

[Anti-Party]

Just be honest, all you want is more tax money and you dont care how.
We are taxed enough already.

We are one of the least taxed Countries in the world. NO PARTY wants more taxation. The small brain parties want to say that the other parties WANT taxation when NO ONE WANTS MORE TAXATION THAN NECESSARY. America's Constitution is based on Taxation. If you can't bet past that like most Libertarians and Tea party today, you can't learn anything about Government.

 

[Anti-Party]

No Dune, that is not what the above portion of the discussion was about. You stated that poor people created jobs via demand. That is what I was referring to. But you ignored everything and got off on some side track. I stated in post two that I thought cap gains should be taxed as ordinary income. I explained the process that those large companies took to become large companies. Every company starts out with investors. The only way they can expand at that rate is via investment. Those starting out today with small companies that are looking to expand and grow are doing the same thing. Getting people to take a chance with their investment money on the business plan and product/idea. That is where small company growth comes from. They have to have a great idea/product coupled with a good business plan. Investors come in, the consumers get a taste for the product/idea and if it is a hit, demand increases. Which then leads to further jobs.





The above is so absolutely incorrect that it borders on desh level stupidity.

Your post was scattered but basically correct. You basically stated you can't get rich without a rich investor. Weird how the American dream was "If you work hard, you will make good money"

You can get rich alone but it's not likely today. You can work to be middle class but it's not likely today.

 

[Taft2016]

My opinion of people who believe businesses aren't hiring because they don't have the money, is that they're morons. Corporations have been showing record profits during a time of historic economic inequality. But that's not enough proof for the slavish right wingers who hope their bosses will hear them loudly agreeing that the "job creators" shouldn't pay taxes and dream that they'll proceed to go out with the other "job creators' and talk about that smart fella in accounting rather than laugh their asses off at another useful idiot.


Anything else?

Classic Darla. Create the false absolute, then mock the false absolute that was never uttered:

agreeing that the "job creators" shouldn't pay taxes

I love these "record profits" lines... how do we reach that conclusion?. If two corporations in the country have record profit years, I suppose it's OK to say "Corporations have been showing record profits during a time of historic economic inequality"?

But is it really a meaningful statement?

Moving along, there is also the accrued earnings tax that applies to corporations, but not individuals. If a corporation keeps its "record profits," or any profits for that matter, into the following year, it is taxed again, again, and again until it is all gone. This would be the equivalent of an individual finishing the year with $1000 left over, which the individual puts in an bank account, and which the government returns again next year to tax all over again.

So to zero out profits at year's end corporations need deductible expenses... of which labor is one. Higher wages and more jobs will follow if the tax code is amended to incentivize them...

e.g., $1 deduction for every $1 in salary paid for employees earning over $250K per year.
$1.50 deduction for every $1 in salary paid for employees earning under $250K per year.

But then again, with no victims, there's no liberalism, is there?

 

[Rune]

Classic Darla. Create the false absolute, then mock the false absolute that was never uttered:



I love these "record profits" lines... how do we reach that conclusion?. If two corporations in the country have record profit years, I suppose it's OK to say "Corporations have been showing record profits during a time of historic economic inequality"?

But is it really a meaningful statement?

Moving along, there is also the accrued earnings tax that applies to corporations, but not individuals. If a corporation keeps its "record profits," or any profits for that matter, into the following year, it is taxed again, again, and again until it is all gone. This would be the equivalent of an individual finishing the year with $1000 left over, which the individual puts in an bank account, and which the government returns again next year to tax all over again.

So to zero out profits at year's end corporations need deductible expenses... of which labor is one. Higher wages and more jobs will follow if the tax code is amended to incentivize them...

e.g., $1 deduction for every $1 in salary paid for employees earning over $250K per year.
$1.50 deduction for every $1 in salary paid for employees earning under $250K per year.

But then again, with no victims, there's no liberalism, is there?

WTF are you on about now? salaries are 100% deductions, so it is already dollar for dollar.
Then you want to add a larger deduction if they pay a lower salary Yes, you are a conservatard.

 

[Rune]

No Dune, that is not what the above portion of the discussion was about. You stated that poor people created jobs via demand. That is what I was referring to. But you ignored everything and got off on some side track. I stated in post two that I thought cap gains should be taxed as ordinary income. I explained the process that those large companies took to become large companies. Every company starts out with investors. The only way they can expand at that rate is via investment. Those starting out today with small companies that are looking to expand and grow are doing the same thing. Getting people to take a chance with their investment money on the business plan and product/idea. That is where small company growth comes from. They have to have a great idea/product coupled with a good business plan. Investors come in, the consumers get a taste for the product/idea and if it is a hit, demand increases. Which then leads to further jobs.



The above is so absolutely incorrect that it borders on desh level stupidity.

1. You are telling me what my question is really about? Win any debate by utterly frustrating your opponent. Got it.
2. Only corporations can incur capital gains? Shut the fuck up. This comment sinks to below even your deliberate and daily obfuscations.
From my own experience; every time I sell a house (having already used up my once per lifetime excemption I incur capital gains liability, unless I buy another house within one year.

 

[Taft2016]

WTF are you on about now? salaries are 100% deductions, so it is already dollar for dollar.
Then you want to add a larger deduction if they pay a lower salary Yes, you are a conservatard.

Yes, of course.

Under the current system, the profit bottom line is zeroed out each year by giving board members huge bonuses, which also makes you wet your little panties. By running these bonuses through tax shelters, and "lending" the bonuses back to the corporation, the corporations get their profits back, only now they are in the "debt" column to be counted against future profits.

Giving greater tax incentives to creating jobs paying less than $250K will result in the creation of more of those jobs.

But you're not really interesting in job creation, are you? You're only interested in taking money from corporations and giving it to the government to redistribute to your political special interests.

Guess what retard? As I've just explained, the big corporations already have a way of getting around that.

Lord, what fools these libtards be.

 

[Rune]

Yes, of course.

Under the current system, the profit bottom line is zeroed out each year by giving board members huge bonuses, which also makes you wet your little panties. By running these bonuses through tax shelters, and "lending" the bonuses back to the corporation, the corporations get their profits back, only now they are in the "debt" column to be counted against future profits.

Giving greater tax incentives to creating jobs paying less than $250K will result in the creation of more of those jobs.

But you're not really interesting in job creation, are you? You're only interested in taking money from corporations and giving it to the government to redistribute to your political special interests.

Guess what retard? As I've just explained, the big corporations already have a way of getting around that.

Lord, what fools these libtards be.

You have so little understanding of what I actually want. You project what you think I want, but you are clueless.

 

[Taft2016]

You have so little understanding of what I actually want. You project what you think I want, but you are clueless.

I think that in real life "so little understanding" is your middle name.

 

[The Dude]

Tax way less everywhere libtards
Gut the military and ATF/NRA
Increase funding for education and healthcare
Poor people are funny and unproductive

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

1. You are telling me what my question is really about? Win any debate by utterly frustrating your opponent. Got it.

No moron. I am telling you which comment of yours I responded to. You are the one constantly trying to move the goal posts and discussion.

2. Only corporations can incur capital gains? Shut the fuck up. This comment sinks to below even your deliberate and daily obfuscations.
From my own experience; every time I sell a house (having already used up my once per lifetime excemption I incur capital gains liability, unless I buy another house within one year.

Dear moron... Not once did I ever state that only corporations can incur cap gains. So why do you continue creating straw men?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

That would be smoke and mirrors. Demand comes from the majority, the majority is poor, so the rich don't create jobs, it is just another excuse to take more of your money, that you fell for.

Not true... jobs come from people (not just rich) who invest their own capital and take the risk to start a business. Google, Microsoft, Wal Mart, Apple etc... all of them began in such a manner. Without the investments of large investors either directly or through bank loans, hedge/VC funds etc...

As they have grown, they have continued adding jobs as they have expanded. Granted, as companies mature to the point that future expansion is not economically viable, they will stop adding jobs. Then their new goal is to maintain profitability and productivity.

Not sure how it is you think private sector job growth occurs... but would be interested in your counter points.

It sure as fuck hasn't grown from big business or capital investment in the past 7 years. Typical Simplefreak talking point.

1) That doesn't alter the way the private sector grows
2) Business owners are going to expand when it is economically viable
3) As long as they see political risks, they are going to be cautious with expansion
4) The government can get in the way via mandates/tax code etc...

I can't help but notice you did not comment on what it is that YOU think makes the private sector increase jobs. I would still be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Again, for the apparently reading impaired, I did not ask how big companies started. I asked if they were the primary job creators. Since they are not, they should not be held up as the reason for reduced rates on capital gains. If it were nonsense you could readily refute it without resorting to being critical of my sarcasm: you can't so my comment stands. It has been my point all along. You should try to pay attention.

Not even close. Capital gains need not arise from corporate activity, hence your claim is total bullshit.

No Dune, that is not what the above portion of the discussion was about. You stated that poor people created jobs via demand. That is what I was referring to. But you ignored everything and got off on some side track. I stated in post two that I thought cap gains should be taxed as ordinary income. I explained the process that those large companies took to become large companies. Every company starts out with investors. The only way they can expand at that rate is via investment. Those starting out today with small companies that are looking to expand and grow are doing the same thing. Getting people to take a chance with their investment money on the business plan and product/idea. That is where small company growth comes from. They have to have a great idea/product coupled with a good business plan. Investors come in, the consumers get a taste for the product/idea and if it is a hit, demand increases. Which then leads to further jobs.



The above is so absolutely incorrect that it borders on desh level stupidity.

1. You are telling me what my question is really about? Win any debate by utterly frustrating your opponent. Got it.
2. Only corporations can incur capital gains? Shut the fuck up. This comment sinks to below even your deliberate and daily obfuscations.
From my own experience; every time I sell a house (having already used up my once per lifetime excemption I incur capital gains liability, unless I buy another house within one year.

do try to pay attention...