Why Conservatives and Libertarians Are Mad at Illegal Immigrants...

AssHatZombie said:
WHo will businesses sell to with no workers to buy the products? You really need to think more deeply about your worldview and confused sense of morality.
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The problem is you are thinking of wealth/jops as something static, in other words that there is a fixed pie with some exact number to go around.
We saw some jobs leave after NAFTA to Mexico, yet far more people found jobs and good jobs in high tech, biotech, service industries and health. We are living better.

When jobs go overseas with cheaper labor or are done by machines (with cheaper labor), the net result is a lower cost for the products they make. This results in greater purchasing power for buying such things as services, like massage therapy, tanning, etc...
These are things the average family could not afford a generation ago, but can today due to having more of their disposable income because they are spending less on goods.
And of course in turn the demand for services produces jobs there.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Well, the wages are low because there is a glut of illegals working in violation of federal law. It's actually kind of a chicken and egg kind of thing.
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That might be true if you're a painter, roofer, or you spend all day picking produce, but how many illegal workers do you see occupying high paying jobs? Wages have been lowered in IT because jobs have been sent overseas, not from mexicans crossing the border.

In any case, your problem is with capitalism, not mexicans.
 
blackascoal said:
That might be true if you're a painter, roofer, or you spend all day picking produce, but how many illegal workers do you see occupying high paying jobs? Wages have been lowered in IT because jobs have been sent overseas, not from mexicans crossing the border.

In any case, your problem is with capitalism, not mexicans.
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So painters and roofers don't deserve the border protections our forefathers have died for? And, newsflash, outsourcing jobs is also a form of economic warfare against americans.

"Capitalism" as you put it, is far from pure. It takes place in a highly regulated environment according to strict rules formulated with multiple considerations and competing interests in play. All countries practice forms of protectionism, for various reasons. Maintaining jobs for citizens is a valid reason for protectionism, unless of course, you're only thinking short term, and plan on busting out an entire society Soprano style, to placate foreign powers.

Fuck your idiocy, blackascoal. You're public enemy #1 and you're too stupid to see it.
 
AssHatZombie said:
So painters and roofers don't deserve the border protections our forefathers have died for? And, newsflash, outsourcing jobs is also a form of economic warfare against americans.

"Capitalism" as you put it, is far from pure. It takes place in a highly regulated environment according to strict rules formulated with multiple considerations and competing interests in play. All countries practice forms of protectionism, for various reasons. Maintaining jobs for citizens is a valid reason for protectionism, unless of course, you're only thinking short term, and plan on busting out an entire society Soprano style, to placate foreign powers.

Fuck your idiocy, blackascoal. You're public enemy #1 and you're too stupid to see it.
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When did our forefathers die for border protection?
 
The HIGHEST the unemployment rate in this country has been since 1997 is 6.3% in June of 2003. Last month it was 4.7% Since the amnesty of 1986, the HIGHEST the unemployment rate has been is 7.8% in June of 1992. Those numbers are all at or maybe just above what a good regulated market economy calls full employment. Now presumably, ALL those big bad illegal alliens have been here during that time actually going up in numbers while our unemployment rate goes DOWN. So I would think this would point to the fact that those illegals are not TAKING jobs all those good honest wanna be hardworking Americans are so sure they are losing out on. Like I have said before, my ONLY concern with illegal alliens is that they are exploited under our current system and do not enjoy many or our labor and wage protections. Other than that, the people that live here in my community, that have come from Mexico, either legally or otherwise, have added a great deal to the culture of southern New Mexico.
 
Socrtease said:
The HIGHEST the unemployment rate in this country has been since 1997 is 6.3% in June of 2003. Last month it was 4.7% Since the amnesty of 1986, the HIGHEST the unemployment rate has been is 7.8% in June of 1992. Those numbers are all at or maybe just above what a good regulated market economy calls full employment. Now presumably, ALL those big bad illegal alliens have been here during that time actually going up in numbers while our unemployment rate goes DOWN. So I would think this would point to the fact that those illegals are not TAKING jobs all those good honest wanna be hardworking Americans are so sure they are losing out on. Like I have said before, my ONLY concern with illegal alliens is that they are exploited under our current system and do not enjoy many or our labor and wage protections. Other than that, the people that live here in my community, that have come from Mexico, either legally or otherwise, have added a great deal to the culture of southern New Mexico.
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Good point on unemployment.

I find the term "exploited" is wrong, remember they come here because those jobs are STILL much better than what they find in regulated labor market like Mexico. They don't think they are exploited.

My only concern with illegals is whatever government goodies come to them, knowing they pay nothing in taxes.
 
Socrtease said:
The HIGHEST the unemployment rate in this country has been since 1997 is 6.3% in June of 2003. Last month it was 4.7% Since the amnesty of 1986, the HIGHEST the unemployment rate has been is 7.8% in June of 1992. Those numbers are all at or maybe just above what a good regulated market economy calls full employment. Now presumably, ALL those big bad illegal alliens have been here during that time actually going up in numbers while our unemployment rate goes DOWN. So I would think this would point to the fact that those illegals are not TAKING jobs all those good honest wanna be hardworking Americans are so sure they are losing out on. Like I have said before, my ONLY concern with illegal alliens is that they are exploited under our current system and do not enjoy many or our labor and wage protections. Other than that, the people that live here in my community, that have come from Mexico, either legally or otherwise, have added a great deal to the culture of southern New Mexico.
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Not the full story. The wages have gone way down, hurting citizens who do remain in the field. The goal is not full employment, it's getting ahead. Just like in your career, working your ass off for as little as possible is not your goal, is it? yet you'd still like the government to keep people out of your ivory tower elitist profession, wouldn't you? A monkey could operate this legal system.
 
Where do you live..............?

CanadianKid said:
No dumbass..... Americans dont care about rules...

All Americans care about is money....They think illegal immigrants are costing the government to pay for their health,education and services...

They also think illegals are taking money away from Americans....

Fuck the marketplace....What a dumb Republican answer...

CK
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By your screen name I suspect you are a "Legal" person from Canada living in the US...why are you here? Is it you are attending one of our Universities?
'We the People' have the right to self determination...guaranteed in our Constitution...if we want our immigration laws enforced so be it...so up yours!
 
Damocles said:
Why did they not insist on policing the borders? Instead they invited whomever would come.
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Who's they? When are you talking about?

Border protection has long been a function of our security apparatus.

It's not right to assume a result of massive corruption is actually a new policy toward borders. It's disingenuous.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Not the full story. The wages have gone way down, hurting citizens who do remain in the field. The goal is not full employment, it's getting ahead. Just like in your career, working your ass off for as little as possible is not your goal, is it? yet you'd still like the government to keep people out of your ivory tower elitist profession, wouldn't you? A monkey could operate this legal system.
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Well if that is true then even you MIGHT be able to get through law school.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Who's they? When are you talking about?

Border protection has long been a function of our security apparatus.

It's not right to assume a result of massive corruption is actually a new policy toward borders. It's disingenuous.
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The forefathers, you know the ones you said that died for border protection... Those guys who invited every single person into the nation that wanted to come. Those are the guys I was talking about, this is a sad display of inane disingenuousness as you pretend to be unable to comprehend what I am talking about and work at distracting from the original question.

It wasn't until around the 1940s or so that we even tried to limit immigration. Our "forefathers" never fought for your form of "border protection".

Now that doesn't mean that actually knowing who enters the nation is bad, but it certainly isn't a function our "forefathers" designed into the nation.
 
I will tell you one thing, you can't stop determined people. Illegals aren't going to be stopped by BPA who have guns but aren't allowed to fire them. Illegals won't be stopped by a cheap fence. If someone wants to steal a car, they can do it. If someone wants to do drugs, they can do it. You can't just stop illegal immigration, you have to curb it. The goal should be to try and reduce the illegals in this control, and deport them as necessary. Common sense rules first though, if a kid was conceived in this country with his parents and they have been living here for over a decade, I think they should be left alone. Here's a fun fact for you all:

Illegal Immigrants have killed more Americans in the past 4 years than Iraq has killed our troops.

They are NOT allowed in the country, plain and simple. I only feel pity when an innocent child gets involved.
 
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