Why did CGI get the contract to build the Obama care website?

christiefan915 said:
17,000 an hour baby, read it and weep!
Click to expand...

Red Hat's (NYSE: RHT) fix-it plan seems to be working: The Obamacare health exchange can now register 17,000 customers per hour with almost no errors. That’s according to Marilyn Tavenner, the head of the U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and the woman responsible for the troubled healthcare.gov website.

Bloomberg reports the fixes include speeding up web pages so that plans can be displayed in seconds instead of minutes and doubling the number of servers involved. According to Tavenner, the site experience “will be smooth” by the end of the November. But Red Hat is just one piece of the effort. The feds have also pulled in engineers from Google (Nasdaq: GOOG) and Oracle Corp (Nasdaq: ORCL). Red Hat spokespeople have declined to comment about the Raleigh company’s work on the website. Officials have consistently blamed greater-than-expected registration participation as a reason that the website flopped – a claim Andrew Oliver, founder of Durham-based Open Software Integrators disputes. He says it should have been easy to calculate that demand, and breaks down the argument here.



http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2013/11/official-healthcaregov-fix-is-working.html
 
Last edited:
christiefan915 said:
Let's put the comments in order and then I'll ask my question again.

SF: Why would even the most managerially incompetent administration in history hire a firm with that sort of track record to handle its signature project? Well, call me cynical, but the Daily Caller has noted that the senior vice president of the company was a classmate of Michelle Obama at Princeton, and spent “Christmas with the Obamas” at the White House seven months after she got her job at CGI. Oh... well, that just has to be a coincidence...

CF: This isn't about CGI, it's about Michelle Obama's classmate.

SF: Yes, it IS about CGI... there were examples from their past where they failed to handle big jobs for the Canadian government.

CF: Why do you think CGI got it?

SF: CGI did NOT have a good track record at handling big projects... so yes, it lends credence to the cronyism comment.

It's pretty clear your post was about cronyism. If not, why do you think CGI got it?
Click to expand...


Yes, it was pretty clear... which is why your question made little sense. They clearly did not 'win' any bid. They had a clear track record of failure on big projects. Yet they got the job. A Canadian firm, bad track record... got the job for $600mm...
 
Superfreak said:
Yes, it was pretty clear... which is why your question made little sense. They clearly did not 'win' any bid. They had a clear track record of failure on big projects. Yet they got the job. A Canadian firm, bad track record... got the job for $600mm...
Click to expand...

They do have a long track record of implementing systems in a whole host of industries including healthcare. They are not the only company to come a cropper with huge government type projects. EDS, now part of Hewlett Packard, spring readily to mind, they had a long list of cock-ups in the UK not least for HMCR.


  • In December 2003, EDS lost a 10-year £3 billion contract to run Inland Revenue IT services after a series of serious delays in the payment of tax credits, the contract instead being awarded to the company Cap Gemini. EDS had operated systems for the Inland Revenue since 1994 but the performance of its system had been low, causing late arrival of tax credit payments for hundreds of thousands of people.[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP]
  • In 2004, EDS was criticised by the UK's National Audit Office for its work on IT systems for the UK's Child Support Agency (CSA), which ran seriously over budget causing problems which led to the resignation of the CSA's head, Doug Smith on 2004-11-27. The system's rollout had been two years late and following its introduction in March 2003 the CSA was obliged to write off £1 billion in claims, while £750 million in child support payments from absent parents remained uncollected. An internal EDS memo was leaked that admitted that the CSA's system was "badly designed, badly tested and badly implemented". UK MPs described it as an "appalling waste of public money" and called for it to be scrapped.[SUP][17][/SUP]
  • In 2006, EDS' Joint Personnel Administration (JPA) system for the RAF led to thousands of personnel not receiving correct pay due to "processing errors". EDS and MoD staff were reported to have "no definitive explanations for the errors".[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP]
  • In September 2007 EDS paid $500,000 to settle an action by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission regarding charges related to overstatement of its contract revenues in 2001–2003. At the time these caused a fall in share prices in 2002 which led to legal action against EDS from US shareholder groups.[SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP]
  • On 2007-10-16, British TV company BSkyB claimed £709m compensation from EDS, claiming that EDS' failure to meet its agreed service standards resulted not just from incompetence, but from fraud and deceit in the way it pitched for the contract.[SUP][21][/SUP]
  • During the BSkyB case, it was shown that a Managing Director had obtained a degree over the Internet. Lawyers for Sky were able to demonstrate that the process for awarding the degree claimed would give a degree to a dog, and that the mark attained by the dog was higher than that of the HP executive, who was questioned on his expertise and integrity. HP lost the case with a preliminary £200 million payment ordered, whilst they appeal over the £ 700 million total.[SUP][22][/SUP]
  • On 2008-10-10 it was reported that a Ministry of Defence hard drive potentially containing the details of 100,000 Armed Forces personnel could not be located by EDS.[SUP][23][/SUP]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Data_Systems

http://www.cgi.com/en/case-studies
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
They do have a long track record of implementing systems in a whole host of industries including healthcare. They are not the only company to come a cropper with huge government type projects. EDS, now part of Hewlett Packard, spring readily to mind, they had a long list of cock-ups in the UK not least for HMCR.


  • In December 2003, EDS lost a 10-year £3 billion contract to run Inland Revenue IT services after a series of serious delays in the payment of tax credits, the contract instead being awarded to the company Cap Gemini. EDS had operated systems for the Inland Revenue since 1994 but the performance of its system had been low, causing late arrival of tax credit payments for hundreds of thousands of people.[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP]
  • In 2004, EDS was criticised by the UK's National Audit Office for its work on IT systems for the UK's Child Support Agency (CSA), which ran seriously over budget causing problems which led to the resignation of the CSA's head, Doug Smith on 2004-11-27. The system's rollout had been two years late and following its introduction in March 2003 the CSA was obliged to write off £1 billion in claims, while £750 million in child support payments from absent parents remained uncollected. An internal EDS memo was leaked that admitted that the CSA's system was "badly designed, badly tested and badly implemented". UK MPs described it as an "appalling waste of public money" and called for it to be scrapped.[SUP][17][/SUP]
  • In 2006, EDS' Joint Personnel Administration (JPA) system for the RAF led to thousands of personnel not receiving correct pay due to "processing errors". EDS and MoD staff were reported to have "no definitive explanations for the errors".[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP]
  • In September 2007 EDS paid $500,000 to settle an action by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission regarding charges related to overstatement of its contract revenues in 2001–2003. At the time these caused a fall in share prices in 2002 which led to legal action against EDS from US shareholder groups.[SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP]
  • On 2007-10-16, British TV company BSkyB claimed £709m compensation from EDS, claiming that EDS' failure to meet its agreed service standards resulted not just from incompetence, but from fraud and deceit in the way it pitched for the contract.[SUP][21][/SUP]
  • During the BSkyB case, it was shown that a Managing Director had obtained a degree over the Internet. Lawyers for Sky were able to demonstrate that the process for awarding the degree claimed would give a degree to a dog, and that the mark attained by the dog was higher than that of the HP executive, who was questioned on his expertise and integrity. HP lost the case with a preliminary £200 million payment ordered, whilst they appeal over the £ 700 million total.[SUP][22][/SUP]
  • On 2008-10-10 it was reported that a Ministry of Defence hard drive potentially containing the details of 100,000 Armed Forces personnel could not be located by EDS.[SUP][23][/SUP]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Data_Systems

http://www.cgi.com/en/case-studies
Click to expand...

Pointing out that there are other unqualified companies does not alter the fact that CGI should never have been awarded the contract.
 
Superfreak said:
at 17000 per hour... how long would it take to register 30mm plans? (assuming the site ran perfectly at that pace 24/7)
Click to expand...

Well if the only way was to sign up online then the answer is around 3 months but it isn't the only way and I am sure that the transactions rates will get even faster in the coming weeks. Of course there is some downtime in the early hours of the morning for upgrades and testing but even so it should comfortably handle the numbers.
 
Superfreak said:
Pointing out that there are other unqualified companies does not alter the fact that CGI should never have been awarded the contract.
Click to expand...

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, I commend you for your perspicacity. Anyway EDS wasn't just any old company it was the biggest supplier of turnkey systems until it taken over by HP.
 
Superfreak said:
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2...-only-cares-about-politics-obamacare-website/

Quite a track record they have going there... I wonder why the Obama admin would hire a CANADIAN company with a horrid track record?



Oh... well, that just has to be a coincidence...

Why isn't the left up in arms about offshoring the jobs? Spending US tax dollars on a Canadian firm to create a website that doesn't work. One that is said to have cost about $600m to create... which is absurd in itself. All the tech firms in the US and we couldn't get the Obama admin to choose one over this Canadian failure?


[/INDENT]
Click to expand...

Excellent questions SF of which the answer to is painfully obvious; Obama and his Democratic minions really are THAT incredibly stupid.

But hey, it's not their money right??!!
 
christiefan915 said:
:rolleyes: And when we accused cheney of cronyism for giving Halliburton a no-bid contract during the Iraq war, cons were all over us.

Sauce for the goose, etc.
Click to expand...

Cheney didn't give the no bid contract you repugnantly dumb asshat. But I am amused that you think there is equivalence between a highly specialized company like Haliburton in a time of war and one of thousands like CGI in times of peace.

Yes, you really are THAT repugnantly stupid.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
They do have a long track record of implementing systems in a whole host of industries including healthcare. They are not the only company to come a cropper with huge government type projects. EDS, now part of Hewlett Packard, spring readily to mind, they had a long list of cock-ups in the UK not least for HMCR.


  • In December 2003, EDS lost a 10-year £3 billion contract to run Inland Revenue IT services after a series of serious delays in the payment of tax credits, the contract instead being awarded to the company Cap Gemini. EDS had operated systems for the Inland Revenue since 1994 but the performance of its system had been low, causing late arrival of tax credit payments for hundreds of thousands of people.[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP]
  • In 2004, EDS was criticised by the UK's National Audit Office for its work on IT systems for the UK's Child Support Agency (CSA), which ran seriously over budget causing problems which led to the resignation of the CSA's head, Doug Smith on 2004-11-27. The system's rollout had been two years late and following its introduction in March 2003 the CSA was obliged to write off £1 billion in claims, while £750 million in child support payments from absent parents remained uncollected. An internal EDS memo was leaked that admitted that the CSA's system was "badly designed, badly tested and badly implemented". UK MPs described it as an "appalling waste of public money" and called for it to be scrapped.[SUP][17][/SUP]
  • In 2006, EDS' Joint Personnel Administration (JPA) system for the RAF led to thousands of personnel not receiving correct pay due to "processing errors". EDS and MoD staff were reported to have "no definitive explanations for the errors".[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP]
  • In September 2007 EDS paid $500,000 to settle an action by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission regarding charges related to overstatement of its contract revenues in 2001–2003. At the time these caused a fall in share prices in 2002 which led to legal action against EDS from US shareholder groups.[SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP]
  • On 2007-10-16, British TV company BSkyB claimed £709m compensation from EDS, claiming that EDS' failure to meet its agreed service standards resulted not just from incompetence, but from fraud and deceit in the way it pitched for the contract.[SUP][21][/SUP]
  • During the BSkyB case, it was shown that a Managing Director had obtained a degree over the Internet. Lawyers for Sky were able to demonstrate that the process for awarding the degree claimed would give a degree to a dog, and that the mark attained by the dog was higher than that of the HP executive, who was questioned on his expertise and integrity. HP lost the case with a preliminary £200 million payment ordered, whilst they appeal over the £ 700 million total.[SUP][22][/SUP]
  • On 2008-10-10 it was reported that a Ministry of Defence hard drive potentially containing the details of 100,000 Armed Forces personnel could not be located by EDS.[SUP][23][/SUP]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Data_Systems

http://www.cgi.com/en/case-studies
Click to expand...

What do your deflections about EDS have to do with the topic? Oh that's right, not a damn thing.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Well if the only way was to sign up online then the answer is around 3 months but it isn't the only way and I am sure that the transactions rates will get even faster in the coming weeks. Of course there is some downtime in the early hours of the morning for upgrades and testing but even so it should comfortably handle the numbers.
Click to expand...

Less than three months; about 73 days.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, I commend you for your perspicacity. Anyway EDS wasn't just any old company it was the biggest supplier of turnkey systems until it taken over by HP.
Click to expand...

This isn't about hindsight; this is about the lies, malfeasance and partisan cronyism that defines this administration.

One can only wonder what the next spin will be from the Obama appologists when the savings do not materialize next year?
I know; it was because of those gosh darned Republican obstructionists who did not fix a legislative nightmare they did not vote for or have any input on. Yes, liberals are THAT incredibly stupid.
 
Truth Detector said:
What do your deflections about EDS have to do with the topic? Oh that's right, not a damn thing.
Click to expand...

They would have been the obvious company to turn to in previous times. There aren't actually a lot of companies that are capable or indeed willing to take on such a high profile and complex project. IBM and CAP Gemini spring to mind, but who else?
 
Superfreak said:
at 17000 per hour... how long would it take to register 30mm plans? (assuming the site ran perfectly at that pace 24/7)
Click to expand...

The original comment was that he doubted the 17,000/hr., not how long it would take to register 30mm plans. So my response was what kind of proof do you need to verify 17,000/hr.
 
Superfreak said:
Yes, it was pretty clear... which is why your question made little sense. They clearly did not 'win' any bid. They had a clear track record of failure on big projects. Yet they got the job. A Canadian firm, bad track record... got the job for $600mm...
Click to expand...

Their record doesn't look so bad according to this: http://www.cgi.com/sites/default/files/pdf/cgi_awards_rankings_e.pdf

I'm not going to take a stand one way or the other because there's just not enough information to go by. All I really wanted was for you guys to stop dancing around the crony issue and admit you believe CGI got the bid because of Michelle's contacts.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
They would have been the obvious company to turn to in previous times. There aren't actually a lot of companies that are capable or indeed willing to take on such a high profile and complex project. IBM and CAP Gemini spring to mind, but who else?
Click to expand...

I was just reading up on the bidding and found this. Looks like it wasn't just handed to CGI.

"The decision, however, limited the companies that could bid to build the website to a pre-approved list of 16 vendors selected in 2007 [by the G.W. Bush administration] for an umbrella contract to work on unspecified systems for the U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

Only four of the 16 companies bid for the work, including CGI. The other bidders haven’t been publicly identified.

In the past, “there were no issues brought to my attention about CGI,” said Charlene Frizzera, a former acting CMS administrator who left the agency in 2010. “They seemed to be a fine contractor when I was there.”

With no obvious red flags, CMS contract officers would have had no reason to exclude CGI from consideration, Frizzera said in a telephone interview. Indeed, CGI earlier had worked for the agency on the medicare.gov website among other projects, said Thanos Moschopoulos, a BMO Capital Markets analyst in Toronto.

CGI has been paid $104 million already and while no penalties are built into its contract, Sebelius said on Oct. 30 said that “paying for work that isn’t complete is not something that we will do.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ted-bidding-limited-who-could-build-site.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top