Why didn't the Ukrainians make use of this?

[T. A. Gardner]

Ukraine has had quite a bit of time to prepare for a Russian invasion. It seems to me they didn't make best use of the resources available.

This is a Russian then Ukrainian tank refurbishment factory in Kharkov. The Ukrainians could have reopened the plant and made progress on refitting all those tanks. Maybe Trump or Biden could have slid them some cash to make sure it happened.

This factory had hundreds of relatively new T-72 and T-80 tanks sitting at it along with other military vehicles. The US or NATO allies could have also helped the Ukrainians upgrade these tanks to make them more effective in service.

I hold up the Israelis as a similar example. They made damn sure they had top-of-the-line military equipment, especially tanks, to take on their neighbors starting from the 50's

Old WW 2 Sherman tanks upgraded to be effective against 1960's to 1970's tanks.

Old Soviet era T-55 tanks the Israelis upgraded with new US engines, British fire controls, a NATO L7 105mm gun, and other improvements turning them into effective vehicles.

It seems our hidebound generals at the Pentagon have no imagination and the Ukrainians a lack of initiative to do what needed be done.

 

[Cypress]

The age of the tank is over.

It basically ended when columns of Russian tanks were destroyed in Grozny by a few dozen Chechen rebels with anti tank missiles.

This is the age of drones, air power, and shoulder fired anti-tank missiles.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The age of the tank is over.

It basically ended when columns of Russian tanks were destroyed in Grozny by a few dozen Chechen rebels with anti tank missiles.

This is the age of drones, air power, and shoulder fired anti-tank missiles.

Bullshit. Just because the Russians don't have the tactics and technology in place to counter those missiles doesn't mean they are some sort of panacea. They aren't.

For example, there have been shoulder fired weapons that would kill any contemporary tank since WW 2. They haven't worked to date all that well. Drones can be countered too. One way is to jam the living shit out of their control systems.

I can go out and buy, right now, a GPS jammer for as little as $10. A military version that will take out GPS say for several KM isn't going to cost more than a few hundred. Hand them out like MRE's to the troops and jam the entire battlefield so GPS won't work. End of most military grade drones. Don't just take out the GPS signal. Jam the shit out of the whole bandwidth.

Right after I retired from the Navy a Captain (Navy equivalent of a Colonel) at the Pentagon called me, at home asking if I'd go to Iraq for a year to supervise installing cellphone jammers in US military vehicles. She said I was recommended as 'the guy' to get that sort of thing done. That was to make it impossible to use a cellphone to set off an IED.

Just because the Russians aren't doing it doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

[Cypress]

Bullshit. Just because the Russians don't have the tactics and technology in place to counter those missiles doesn't mean they are some sort of panacea. They aren't.

For example, there have been shoulder fired weapons that would kill any contemporary tank since WW 2. They haven't worked to date all that well. Drones can be countered too. One way is to jam the living shit out of their control systems.

I can go out and buy, right now, a GPS jammer for as little as $10. A military version that will take out GPS say for several KM isn't going to cost more than a few hundred. Hand them out like MRE's to the troops and jam the entire battlefield so GPS won't work. End of most military grade drones. Don't just take out the GPS signal. Jam the shit out of the whole bandwidth.

Right after I retired from the Navy a Captain (Navy equivalent of a Colonel) at the Pentagon called me, at home asking if I'd go to Iraq for a year to supervise installing cellphone jammers in US military vehicles. She said I was recommended as 'the guy' to get that sort of thing done. That was to make it impossible to use a cellphone to set off an IED.

Just because the Russians aren't doing it doesn't mean it can't be done.
]

Always good to hear an obscure message board armchair expert chime in on what the Ukranian armed forces should be doing.

I suspect the Ukrainian armed forces are in a better position to know what they need. They are begging sympathetic nations for anti-tank rockets, drones, surface to air missiles, aircraft, and air cover.

I have not heard about them begging for more tanks as a top priority.

I said the age of tanks was over. I did not say tanks were obsolete. At least that is what I have read some military experts write. There aren't going to be anymore Kursk tank battles, and most nations have downsized the tank component of their armed forces.

 

[Rune]

Bullshit. Just because the Russians don't have the tactics and technology in place to counter those missiles doesn't mean they are some sort of panacea. They aren't.

For example, there have been shoulder fired weapons that would kill any contemporary tank since WW 2. They haven't worked to date all that well. Drones can be countered too. One way is to jam the living shit out of their control systems.

I can go out and buy, right now, a GPS jammer for as little as $10. A military version that will take out GPS say for several KM isn't going to cost more than a few hundred. Hand them out like MRE's to the troops and jam the entire battlefield so GPS won't work. End of most military grade drones. Don't just take out the GPS signal. Jam the shit out of the whole bandwidth.

Right after I retired from the Navy a Captain (Navy equivalent of a Colonel) at the Pentagon called me, at home asking if I'd go to Iraq for a year to supervise installing cellphone jammers in US military vehicles. She said I was recommended as 'the guy' to get that sort of thing done. That was to make it impossible to use a cellphone to set off an IED.

5000 kills retard.
Shoulder fired
No training required.
Shut the fuck up blowhard.

The Javelin's HEAT warhead is capable of defeating modern tanks by hitting them from above, where their armor is thinnest (see top attack), and is also useful against fortifications in a direct attack flight. As of 2019, the Javelin had been used in around 5,000 successful engagements.

 

[Nordberg]

Why did they have a lot of time to prepare? Putin just attacked without cause or warning. This is Putin's war of choice.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

I am a little surprised the Ukrainians didn't blow some of their own bridges to keep the Russian tanks and supply trucks out of the Ukraine interior altogether.

Or blow some dams and drown them in the river valleys if they did!

This must be because they didn't believe Pooty was totally insane and serious about invading their country.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I am a little surprised the Ukrainians didn't blow some of their own bridges to keep the Russian tanks and supply trucks out of the Ukraine interior altogether.

Or blow some dams and drown them in the river valleys if they did!

This must be because they didn't believe Pooty was totally insane and serious about invading their country.

It might slow the Russians down a bit, but that's hardly a panacea...

 

[Hawkeye10]

It might slow the Russians down a bit, but that's hardly a panacea...

Please do shut up!

 

[McRocket]

Please do shut up!

Why?

How was that post of his wrong?

 

[Hawkeye10]

Why?

How was that post of his wrong?

I was being sarcastic!

U really do NOT pay enough attention to me!

 

[McRocket]

Ukraine IS modernizing their tanks in storage.
They have been ever since they started losing so many in the Donbas War.
But they are going VERY slowly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Ukrainian_Ground_Forces


Plus, the two Israel examples you gave were mostly up-gunning.

The T-72's, T-80's and T-64's and T-90's ALL use - basically - the same gun...the 125mm.
It's protection and electronics that need upgrading. And they are not cheap.

Also, Russia has over 16,000(!) tanks in reserve.
It does not matter how many tanks Ukraine refits - it will NEVER be enough.
Ukraine has near-ZERO chance of beating Russia with their equipment.
Even if they fix up ALL their tanks in storage and NATO ships them all their Mig-29's and Su-25's.
It will not be enough.

The ONLY chance they have is (assuming NATO never joins in directly) is wearing down the Russians (with the help of outside equipment shipments) until Putin gives up.

 

[McRocket]

I was being sarcastic!

U really do NOT pay enough attention to me!

NO ONE could tell you were being sarcastic based on that post unless they knew you WELL - and you know it.

Bye now.

 

[Hawkeye10]

NO ONE could tell you were being sarcastic based on that post unless they knew you WELL - and you know it.

Bye now.

Riiiiiight.

 

[McRocket]

The age of the tank is over.

It basically ended when columns of Russian tanks were destroyed in Grozny by a few dozen Chechen rebels with anti tank missiles.

This is the age of drones, air power, and shoulder fired anti-tank missiles.

Not yet.

There are now Active Protection Systems like 'Trophy' that destroy all incoming missiles.
Israel - who developed Trophy - has had fantastic success with them in combat (and testing).

'Since 2011, the system has achieved 100% success in all low and high-intensity combat events, in diversified terrain (urban, open and foliage). The system has intercepted a variety of threats, including the Kornet ATGM, RPG-29, etc. the U.S Army has reported similar success in tests. “I tried to kill the Abrams tank with ATGM 48 times and failed, despite the fact that some of them were supersonic,” said US Army Col. Glenn Dean.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)

 

[McRocket]

Riiiiiight.

Have another drink.

We are done here.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Have another drink.

We are done here.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

It might slow the Russians down a bit, but that's hardly a panacea...

The thing is when you have to barge your tanks across or build temporary bridges etc., the time it takes to do so is enormous, AND THEY ARE SITTING DUCKS FOR ATTACK!.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The thing is when you have to barge your tanks across or build temporary bridges etc., the time it takes to do so is enormous, AND THEY ARE SITTING DUCKS FOR ATTACK!.

I got news for you, the Russians, the Americans, the Chinese, the Germans, or the British can all bridge a major river using military bridging equipment in a matter of an hour or two.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Any major military that has to do riverine operations has the equipment, engineers, and knowledge to bridge a major river in a matter of hours. They can send amphibious vehicles and ferry men and vehicles across until the bridge is done.