why do christians really wonder why they aren't liked?

Your idiocy about laws removing free will is preposterous and idiotic.

AHZ, you'd do better if you present an argument why, rather than just ranting.

I am not refering to laws removing free will, I am refering specifically to Christian ideology and the paradox of that in comparison to their moralising campaigns to ban or eliminate things.

It is fundamental to the Christian belief that people freely accept JC and Christian morality.

If current Christians are successful in their moral campaigns to end immorality, closing brothels or whatever, it removes the choice to chose sin.

Thus potential Christians would not have a free choice to pick sin or JC. This is in opposition to Christian theology.

Lets see if you can respond without misrepresenting.....
 
The assumption is that free will would somehow be infringed and it would "take the temptation away" if there was a law against it. You have yet to provide an example of any time that has worked.

This isn't the point I am making.

It is that Xtians' campaigns to 'do away with' 'immorality' contradicts the doctrine of their own faith.
 
uscitizen said:
I am not saying it would remove anything except the access to what we have to choose from. Temptation is another matter entirely.
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Once again, it appears that it doesn't do that even. Drugs, if anything, have an even wider variety. Women sell themselves regularly in every city, many men take advantage of that offering.

The idea that such laws would take away the temptation and thus remove free will is based on a flawed concept of human action. Regardless of whether the laws are passed the items will be available. They always are, they always will be.
 
AnyOldIron II said:
The assumption is that free will would somehow be infringed and it would "take the temptation away" if there was a law against it. You have yet to provide an example of any time that has worked.

This isn't the point I am making.

It is that Xtians' campaigns to 'do away with' 'immorality' contradicts the doctrine of their own faith.
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But it doesn't. My point is that the temptation is still there, their free will is unimpaired regardless of the law.

The basic conception that it is against Christian teaching to make laws against what they deem immoral because people would no longer be able to make the choice for immorality is flawed right down to the core. The choices would simply have further possible consequences, but they would still be there.
 
Damocles said:
It still wouldn't work, or do you think that making it illegal makes the drugs go away?

The assumption is that free will would somehow be infringed and it would "take the temptation away" if there was a law against it. You have yet to provide an example of any time that has worked.
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I am not saying the Christians attempts to take choices away WORKS. Just that they are stupid enough to think it will work and that they do try and remove choices.
 
uscitizen said:
I am not saying the Christians attempts to take choices away WORKS. Just that they are stupid enough to think it will work and that they do try and remove choices.
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I think you have their motive incorrect. They attempt to remove the unofficial sanction of the action that keeping the action legal seems to provide. To simply say that they think the action will go away is foolish, they too can read history. However they see no need for the government to sanction such activity.

This is once again an oversimplification of the motives of another in an attempt to make a bumper sticker slogan.
 
Damo, Christian history is the history of a theocracy, ie Israel.

Kinda different.
And their sttempts and successes in changing the law to make things illegal did not work for them then either.
They never learn.
 
uscitizen said:
Damo, Christian history is the history of a theocracy, ie Israel.

Kinda different.
And their sttempts and successes in changing the law to make things illegal did not work for them then either.
They never learn.
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However, nobody has suggested that the Sanhedrin run the nation, or that Pharisees need to be installed to inform you of right action. This is again an oversimplification with incorrect assumptions as to motivation with a bit of political ideology mixed in for good measure.

It is an attempt to assign an evil motive to those who have no such ideation. Some would, Phelps jumps into mind, but the vast majority of christians, right or lefty alike, have no such motivation.
 
Umm Damo I have well over 18 years experience in a Christian Church, how many years do you have ?
I know that virtually all devout Christians want porn and many other things made illegal so as to remove the temptation/choice from us.

I thought you were a Buddist ?
 
uscitizen said:
Umm Damo I have well over 18 years experience in a Christian Church, how many years do you have ?
I know that virtually all devout Christians want porn and many other things made illegal so as to remove the temptation/choice from us.

I thought you were a Buddist ?
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I have 18 years of childhood indoctrination in specifically holy roller denomination...
 
uscitizen said:
Well from your statements, you slept thru the sermons...
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Nope. From your sentiments it appears that you read only what you wanted to into the sermons. When seeking "evil" motivation people tend to ignore the parts that clearly indicate a different direction to solidify their own opinion.

Much of what you say I would have said during my "angry" period, the teen years, when I had realized that I didn't believe it and made no secret of it but was still forced to endure the sermons. You'll get past that.

It tends to appear in people that take part in church while not being a believer.
 
Ohh well if you made no secret of it you were not really in a holy roller church. Otherwise you would have been in an early for of intervention.
Blasphemer!
:D

The sermon at the local church a couple of weeks ago was about getting porn banned so ministers would not be tempted.
jk on the tempted ministers part, but truth non the less :D
a Methodist misister was recently busted in KY for kiddie porn.


If I am sitting out on a quiet Sunday morning I can hear the pa system from church....
 
Divorce rates among conservative Christians are significently higher than for other faith groups, and for Atheists and Agnostics.

One of a great many hypocricies.

People are turning away from christianity because it's based on illogic and dominated by hypocrites and illogical people.

The truth of God and faith are personal, but religion has been turned into a marketable product that should come with a warning label attached. "Intelligence required. Beware of false prophets."
 
I think the bible should have a warning label.
"Warning the stories contained within can be hazardous to your mental health"
 
btw the local church's most recent minister is an ex business exec that had a heart attack and got scared so he got religion.
hard core republican.
 
uscitizen said:
Ohh well if you made no secret of it you were not really in a holy roller church. Otherwise you would have been in an early for of intervention.
Blasphemer!
:D

The sermon at the local church a couple of weeks ago was about getting porn banned so ministers would not be tempted.
jk on the tempted ministers part, but truth non the less :D
a Methodist misister was recently busted in KY for kiddie porn.


If I am sitting out on a quiet Sunday morning I can hear the pa system from church....
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You have no idea. However I stuck to my guns.

Sometimes, during Sunday School, they would ask for me to bring in my music collection so they could teach about the subliminal messages included in the album art as well as hidden in the words of the music. It wasn't like I was the only one that owned the music, I was just the only one that they knew wouldn't be ashamed of the ownership.
 
Yeah I left during one sermon and the preacher actually followed me out into the parking lot and verbally abused me for a while. Then proceeded back into preaching his sermon telling the others there a LIE that he had chased me over the creek bank. Lying men of god.....Yeah really made me want to be like him.

But anyway, my point is that churches want to ban all things they disagree with.
 
uscitizen said:
I think the bible should have a warning label.
"Warning the stories contained within can be hazardous to your mental health"
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Most christians have no idea what the Council of Nicea 325 AD, was or what it represented.

Most christians holding the King James version of the bible while talking about the evil of homosexuality have no idea that King James was a homosexual pedophile who thought Jesus was in love with John.

Most christians have no idea who Constantine was or have the slightest knowledge of christian history.
 
blackascoal said:
Most christians have no idea what the Council of Nicea 325 AD, was or what it represented.

Most christians holding the King James version of the bible while talking about the evil of homosexuality have no idea that King James was a homosexual pedophile who thought Jesus was in love with John.

Most christians have no idea who Constantine was or have the slightest knowledge of christian history.
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Absolutely correct.
But preachers that complete seminary do, and still preach garbage, because it is what sells.
 
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