Why Do Republicans Hate Pay-As-You-Go?

What I am waiting for is some evidence that Republicans support PAYGO. Where is it?

I've heard all sorts of bullshit excuses as to why the Republicans did not vote for this particular piece of PAYGO legislation but I haven't seen squat that supports the theory that Republicans really do support PAYGO notwithstanding that they routinely vote against it.

Anyone?
 
What I am waiting for is some evidence that Republicans support PAYGO. Where is it?

I've heard all sorts of bullshit excuses as to why the Republicans did not vote for this particular piece of PAYGO legislation but I haven't seen squat that supports the theory that Republicans really do support PAYGO notwithstanding that they routinely vote against it.

Anyone?
Where is it? They used it in the 90s (along with accounting gimmicks like moving the social security funds into the general spending funds) to help create the imaginary projected "surplus"... Rs are not against "paygo" itself, they are against the silly "gotcha" games like this one.
 
Where is it? They used it in the 90s (along with accounting gimmicks like moving the social security funds into the general spending funds) to help create the imaginary projected "surplus"... Rs are not against "paygo" itself, they are against the silly "gotcha" games like this one.


So in support of your theory that Republicans support PAYGO you ignore the fact that they routinely vote against it (in each of the past four years) and instead point to the fact that they voted for it in 1997?
 
So in support of your theory that Republicans support PAYGO you ignore the fact that they routinely vote against it (in each of the past four years) and instead point to the fact that they voted for it in 1997?
Again, you take portions and then pretend other parts were never stated. Dung, you are vying for the position of "most disingenuous", mostly because Cypress rarely show up anymore.

I thank you again for proving my point previously with the Kerry "voted for it" before he "voted against it"... two version, same bill, slight differences, which bill it is attached to is IMPORTANT.

You also show that the Ds are wont to play games with what bill they attach this "paygo" to. Amazingly, Ds had to vote against it too, or it long would have been passed... eh? They attach it to such crap bills that even they can't pass them with super majorities..
 
Again, you take portions and then pretend other parts were never stated. Dung, you are vying for the position of "most disingenuous", mostly because Cypress rarely show up anymore.

I thank you again for proving my point previously with the Kerry "voted for it" before he "voted against it"... two version, same bill, slight differences, which bill it is attached to is IMPORTANT.


Still nothing on Republican support for PAYGO since 1997? I thought that was the case. Now, you could just admit that the problem Republicans have with PAYGO is that it raises the specter of tax increases in raise revenue to pay for things and it undercuts attempts to cut taxes because then actual programs will have to be cut to pay for it.

Instead, you play this silly game and call me "disingenuous."

And again with the Kerry nonsense. The Kerry "voted before it before voted against it" did not concern voting for an amendment to a bill and then voting against the overall bill such that we have here. Kerry voted differently on on two different bills. It had nothing to do with amendments. There was nothing "ATTACHED" to anything. Two different bills. The "30 days makes all the difference" argument, while laughably absurd was better because at least it isn't easily disproven.
 
Still nothing on Republican support for PAYGO since 1997? I thought that was the case. Now, you could just admit that the problem Republicans have with PAYGO is that it raises the specter of tax increases in raise revenue to pay for things and it undercuts attempts to cut taxes because then actual programs will have to be cut to pay for it.

Instead, you play this silly game and call me "disingenuous."

And again with the Kerry nonsense. The Kerry "voted before it before voted against it" did not concern voting for an amendment to a bill and then voting against the overall bill such that we have here. Kerry voted differently on on two different bills. It had nothing to do with amendments. There was nothing "ATTACHED" to anything. Two different bills. The "30 days makes all the difference" argument, while laughably absurd was better because at least it isn't easily disproven.
Still pretending you cannot read previous posts, or just portions of them, I see. The only nonsense here is your pretense that your "questions" haven't been answered. It wasn't "disproven" because it wasn't my argument, that is a disingenuous stretch provided by your own imagination and reading only a portion of a post and then pretending that any post previous or later didn't exist as well... It's just a humorous attempt at immediate historic revision based on purposeful poor reading comprehension.
 
Where is the Republican sponsored PAYGO? Anything post-dating 1997? It really is an odd thing for the Republicans to be so supportive of PAYGO that they never sponsor PAYGO bills and vote against it any time it comes up for a vote.

Hell, in 2005 the Republicans voted against a PAYGO amendment and in favor of the underlying bill. Here's the vote on the PAYGO amendment:

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00053

And here's the vote on the underlying bill:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00081

And they did the same in 2004. What was the problem there, Damo?


And the notion that Republicans are against bullshit gotcha games is hilarious. Maybe they're against gotcha games when they are the ones getting gotten, but they love them some gotcha games when they're doing the getting.
 
And the notion that Republicans are against bullshit gotcha games is hilarious. Maybe they're against gotcha games when they are the ones getting gotten, but they love them some gotcha games when they're doing the getting.

Duh, I pointed out that both parties play these games, and that the only thing stupid was pretending that people that pay as much attention as we do to politics can't recognize them when they are being played. Come on Dung, you have to do better than playing the same "gotcha" games. We're not your local high school kids rapt with your awesome "knowledge"...

It's weak Bee Ess, a bit below your usual post to just repeat talking points and then pretend we can't spot "gotcha" games.

I could do the same thing and start calling the current attempt at "Tax Go" well... "Tax Go" and start calling it a plan to "force" support for increased taxation and an attempt to get Rs to play into still more Bush-style government growth plans... But I'm not doing that. Mostly because repeating talking points is just sad and shows no growth of knowledge or capacity to understand politics.

Anyway, the republicans don't support this particular Amendment because it is openly biased towards any sort of tax discipline, and is attached to one crappy bill.
 
Duh, I pointed out that both parties play these games, and that the only thing stupid was pretending that people that pay as much attention as we do to politics can't recognize them when they are being played. Come on Dung, you have to do better than playing the same "gotcha" games. We're not your local high school kids rapt with your awesome "knowledge"...

It's weak Bee Ess, a bit below your usual post to just repeat talking points and then pretend we can't spot "gotcha" games.


Dude, Republicans have consistently voted against PAYGO since 2003 regardless of the circumstances of the vote. They vote against PAYGO amendments and for bills. They vote against PAYGO amendments and against bills. They haven't sponsored their own PAYGO amendments. They haven't sponsored their own standalone PAYGO bills. Despite all of this you seriously expect anyone to believe that deep down the Republicans really support PAYGO?

Maybe you've convinced yourself that what you're saying it true, but it doesn't quite add up.

And really, you can save your nonsense about "talking points" and gotcha games. I'm just giving you the Republican record on PAYGO and I'm getting nothing but Republican talking points in return. It's a decent strategy to accuse the other of tactics you are employing, but in this case it's fairly transparent.
 
Dude, Republicans have consistently voted against PAYGO since 2003 regardless of the circumstances of the vote. They vote against PAYGO amendments and for bills. They vote against PAYGO amendments and against bills. They haven't sponsored their own PAYGO amendments. They haven't sponsored their own standalone PAYGO bills. Despite all of this you seriously expect anyone to believe that deep down the Republicans really support PAYGO?

Maybe you've convinced yourself that what you're saying it true, but it doesn't quite add up.

And really, you can save your nonsense about "talking points" and gotcha games. I'm just giving you the Republican record on PAYGO and I'm getting nothing but Republican talking points in return. It's a decent strategy to accuse the other of tactics you are employing, but in this case it's fairly transparent.
You have the history of "paygo" requirements incorrect. The first time it was introduced and supported by Rs was in 1990. It required that funding be CUT for anything that increased the deficit (and that wasn't mandatory, in other words it was discretionary spending) at the end of the fiscal year. That particular "paygo" expired in 2002.

Did you know that in those 12 years it was effective that not even once did a sequester occur? When something was scheduled for sequester, the congress would intervene and stop such an event from occurring. This particular version of "paygo" had no teeth whatsoever and didn't cut anything. The imaginary "surplus" was created by stealing openly from social security funds and cutting military spending due to the end of the cold war.

Did you also know that there is a current Paygo Tool used right now by Congress? Did you know it is far more effective than the sequestration process as it requires a 60 votes to waive a paygo point of order? The Ds are hoping people will be unknowledgeable, like you apparently are, as to this fact so they can replace it with another toothless version that will be passed over by legislation that exempts itself from sequestration and/or forces an increase in taxation based on rules.

In short the Ds are hoping to pass a negative version of the current point of order (the version of paygo currently in place) which would then require 60 votes for any tax cut, or extension of tax cuts. In contrast the current version makes it so that 60 votes are needed to exempt the point of order and pass something that would violate the rule.

This new "version" of "paygo" would make it so they could point to this rule as a reason they were unable to keep the promise that NO FORM OF TAXATION would increase on anybody making less than 250K per year (made by the most visible of Ds currently in government...) as tax cuts on everybody were made nearly impossible to extend.

It's a form of "paygo" that is fiscally wrong, and the current emphasis on it by all the lefty blogs (and yourself) is based solely in the "gotcha" game.

I've pointed this out to you several times in this thread.

The Rs prefer the current form of paygo that is effective in actually cutting costs of some of the bills that Ds are passing. Each of their votes against the D's newest pretense at paygo supports continuing post policy Paygo as it is far more effective than the past rule or the proposed rule on paygo.
 
You have the history of "paygo" requirements incorrect. The first time it was introduced and supported by Rs was in 1990. It required that funding be CUT for anything that increased the deficit (and that wasn't mandatory, in other words it was discretionary spending) at the end of the fiscal year. That particular "paygo" expired in 2002.

Actually, you're wrong right there. It first passed in 1990. Then it was extended in 1993. And then it was extended again in 1997. The 1997 extension expired at the end of 2002. Then, the Republicans passed the Bush tax cuts and the prescription drug bill.


Did you know that in those 12 years it was effective that not even once did a sequester occur? When something was scheduled for sequester, the congress would intervene and stop such an event from occurring. This particular version of "paygo" had no teeth whatsoever and didn't cut anything. The imaginary "surplus" was created by stealing openly from social security funds and cutting military spending due to the end of the cold war.

But that's the same PAYGO that Republicans once voted for. Suddenly they don't like it? Fine, they don't like it. But why bother defending their dislike of PAYGO and instead just saying that PAYGO stinks.

Did you also know that there is a current Paygo Tool used right now by Congress? Did you know it is far more effective than the sequestration process as it requires a 60 votes to waive a paygo point of order? The Ds are hoping people will be unknowledgeable, like you apparently are, as to this fact so they can replace it with another toothless version that will be passed over by legislation that exempts itself from sequestration and/or forces an increase in taxation based on rules.

The current PAYGO is a House rule, passed by the Democrats and oppose by the Republicans. This is statutory PAYGO which, in fact, is harder to go around than a House Rule and it applied for five years as opposed to two. Moreover, this statutory PAYGO imposes the same 3/5ths majority to defeat a PAYGO point of order so factually you are off-base as well. The sequestration order issued after legislation has been passed and the accompanying reductions happen automatically. It would require a new act of Congress to get around a sequestration order under this law.

I would also note that points of order apply only to "emergency" legislation, not to sequestration orders. You are confusing two different concepts. Points of order are used to prevent spending from occurring in the first instance. The sequestration process occurs at the end of the fiscal year after legislation has already been passed.

In short the Ds are hoping to pass a negative version of the current point of order (the version of paygo currently in place) which would then require 60 votes for any tax cut, or extension of tax cuts. In contrast the current version makes it so that 60 votes are needed to exempt the point of order and pass something that would violate the rule.

Actually, that's just not so. 60 votes are needed under this statute to defeat
a point of order. You're just making things up now.


This new "version" of "paygo" would make it so they could point to this rule as a reason they were unable to keep the promise that NO FORM OF TAXATION would increase on anybody making less than 250K per year (made by the most visible of Ds currently in government...) as tax cuts on everybody were made nearly impossible to extend.

This isn't a new version of PAYGO. You're premise is flawed. Additionally, this PAYGO rule contemplates tax reductions on the middle class and has built in adjustments for that explicit purpose.


It's a form of "paygo" that is fiscally wrong, and the current emphasis on it by all the lefty blogs (and yourself) is based solely in the "gotcha" game.

I've pointed this out to you several times in this thread.

The Rs prefer the current form of paygo that is effective in actually cutting costs of some of the bills that Ds are passing. Each of their votes against the D's newest pretense at paygo supports continuing post policy Paygo as it is far more effective than the past rule or the proposed rule on paygo.


As I said, your underlying premise is flawed. The statutory version of PAYGO is much stronger that the House Rule. It includes the point of order mechanism to prevent additional spending without a revenue source and also includes the sequestration provision should CBO projections not prove accurate.

Oh, and just for kicks I'd note that the Republicans voted against the House PAYGO rule, too.
 
Oh, and just for kicks I'd note that the Republicans voted against the House PAYGO rule, too.
And again, that is because they support the more robust version that is currently in effect in the Senate.

We've made it clear that you accept no other version than that which your talking points give you. I never thought I'd see Dung reduced to robotic parrot, but there you have it folks...
 
And again, that is because they support the more robust version that is currently in effect in the Senate.

We've made it clear that you accept no other version than that which your talking points give you. I never thought I'd see Dung reduced to robotic parrot, but there you have it folks...


Show me the "more robust" version that is now in effect in the Senate and evidence that the Republicans actually support it.
 
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Show me the "more robust" version that is now in effect in the Senate and evidence that the Republicans actually support it.
Show you that post-policy PAYGO exists? It just does. That's like asking me prove the sky is made of air because YOU can't see it, or to "prove" that the world is a sphere because when YOU go outside all you see is flat. It was created in the 2004 Budget resolution and prohibits the consideration of revenue measures or new mandatory programs that would increase the deficit by more than the level allowed by the budget resolution. As for evidence that they support it, you can go to what they have to say about it.

http://rpc.senate.gov/public/_files/011707PAYGODK.pdf

Your argument is as weak, your knowledge is weak, your pretense is transparent, and your willingness to spout the talking points without even basic research is now legendary and on record.
 
Show you that post-policy PAYGO exists? It just does. That's like asking me prove the sky is made of air because YOU can't see it.


Oh, I see. It's a super secret rule and the Republican support for it is super secret as well, I suppose.

Here's a link to the Senate Rules. Either it is in there or it doesn't exist:

http://rules.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=RulesOfSenateHome

Feel free to point it out to me when you have a chance.
 
Oh, I see. It's a super secret rule and the Republican support for it is super secret as well, I suppose.

Here's a link to the Senate Rules. Either it is in there or it doesn't exist:

http://rules.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=RulesOfSenateHome

Feel free to point it out to me when you have a chance.
Seriously, this is plainly and directly ignoring information in the post, you didn't even bother to read...

It was created in the 2004 Budget resolution and prohibits the consideration of revenue measures or new mandatory programs that would increase the deficit by more than the level allowed by the budget resolution. At least read the link I provided, it explains to you their position quite readily.
 
Anyone else find it hilarious that while Damo accuses me of trotting out "talking points" he is reading from the script of the Senate Republicans?

Now that his source is finally revealed, it makes this observation from me all the more prescient:

And really, you can save your nonsense about "talking points" and gotcha games. I'm just giving you the Republican record on PAYGO and I'm getting nothing but Republican talking points in return. It's a decent strategy to accuse the other of tactics you are employing, but in this case it's fairly transparent.


Poor guy.
 
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