Why GMO Myths Are So Appealing and Powerful

Professor Baxter said:
Patents certainly ARE the issue. The order prohibits them from saving seeds of protected varieties. But GM foods has absolutely nothing to do with it. They are not required to buy GM seeds.

Do you have some source to corroborate this mass starvation? If it is due to Order 81 then why hasn't the new government repealed the law?

I am defending science against fear mongering nonsense and conspiracy theories.
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The order prevented them from using their own seed lines and forced them to buy seeds from Monsanto.

It was issued by the occupying country, the US.

Their own seeds had been adapted to the local conditions and worked well. The Monsanto seeds did not.

Why did the Army order an aboriginal non-nomadic tribe to buy and only use the products of a private US corporation?
 
Rune said:
The order prevented them from using their own seed lines and forced them to buy seeds from Monsanto.

It was issued by the occupying country, the US.

Their own seeds had been adapted to the local conditions and worked well. The Monsanto seeds did not.

Why did the Army order an aboriginal non-nomadic tribe to buy and only use the products of a private US corporation?
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No, it did not. The order did not say they had to buy seeds from Monsanto. It only said they could not save seeds from protected varieties. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you are either lying or grossly misinformed.

Now where is this mass starvation?
 
Professor Baxter said:
Yeah, and mine is from an actual Indian research institution while yours is a link to some crap from a Western, left wing, wiki type site. But hey, you can link to the anti-vaxers who will cure you with some herbal tinctures too.
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Is this right wing enough for you?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...suicide-using-genetically-modified-crops.html

Or would you prefer an Indian biotechnology website?

http://fbae.org/2009/FBAE/website/false-propaganda_the_tragedy_of_farmers_suicides_in_india .html
 
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Aoxomoxoa said:
Is this right wing enough for you?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...suicide-using-genetically-modified-crops.html
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I guess, I am a right winger, again. :( Hear that PMP! Lol

You have provided nothing to prove your claim. The rates of suicide among farmers in India have not increased significantly over the general population or the rate of population growth in general. The link I provided showed that with reference to crime statistics. You need to establish this "epidemic" of suicides first before you could then start the nearly impossible task of proving there is some sort of correlation (much less causation) to gm crops.

You are promoting some simple minded propaganda. When a person commits suicide it is rarely for any one single reason and there are very often some biological factors involved.
 
Taichiliberal said:
And here's a reality check:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-simon/top-10-lies-told-by-monsa_b_1819731.html


http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/05/08/hidden-viral-gene-discovered-in-gmo-crops/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/28/study-gm-maize-cancer
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Yeah, reality. On the last link... They used a sample size that was too small for the length of the study, a type of rodent that has a high rate of tumors to begin with and low life expectancy.

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/121128.htm

The author, Seralini, actually repeated practices that were heavily criticized in a previous study of his, which demonstrates he does not really care about the scientific validity.

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/events/event/gmo100127-m.pdf


 
Professor Baxter said:
No, it did not. The order did not say they had to buy seeds from Monsanto. It only said they could not save seeds from protected varieties. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you are either lying or grossly misinformed.

Now where is this mass starvation?
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No sir, it is you who is misinformed. They were indeed forbidden from using native stock and forced to buy monsanto seeds. Do more research if need be, and please do not acuse me of lying.
 
Rune said:
No sir, it is you who is misinformed. They were indeed forbidden from using native stock and forced to buy monsanto seeds. Do more research if need be, and please do not acuse me of lying.
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No, they were not. I provided you a source and made some sense out of your muddled and vague claims. But you are still making grossly exaggerated claims that have not been supported by you or in the research I did for you.

They were not required to buy seeds from Monsanto. It may well be that their choices were so greatly limited with the restrictions on the seed saving that they were virtually forced to buy from Monsanto, but you have done nothing to establish that. Again, can you please provide some source to back up your claims of this and the more outlandish claims that it led to mass starvation? If not then you are done and offer nothing of value to this thread.

Repetition of hyperbole does not make it any more true.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Or would you prefer an Indian biotechnology website?

http://fbae.org/2009/FBAE/website/false-propaganda_the_tragedy_of_farmers_suicides_in_india .html
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Ha, why is this HuffPo article under False Propaganda?

The site seems a little sketchy to me with the ads, poor editing, typos and stuff but, I don't think fbae agrees with you. From their home page.

Modern biotechnology is one of the most transformative technologies of the 21st century where many exciting and innovative researches are taking place at a rapid pace, and it is already revolutionizing the way we all live. Since modern biotechnology is new and unfamiliar, some sections of the society have certain doubts, apprehensions, anxieties, issues and concerns about its utility, durability and impacts. It is not very easy for common people to comprehend biotechnology in all its manifestations and society's apprehensions are often exaggerated and amplified by a variety of actors and interlocutors who try to interpret biotechnology in ways that fit their own political agenda. They have been aggressively trying to disrupt the progress of this technology through agitations, law suites, and false propaganda about the safety, risks and benefits of this technology. Many of their assertions are not based on scientific facts, empirical evidences or objective analyses. As a result, there is considerable confusion and chaos in the minds of the public and the media about the risks and benefits of modern biotechnology. These will have to be scientifically and objectively explained and clarified in a given political, social and cultural milieu. The critical need of the hour is for the global scientific community to become more active and reach out to the society to educate them about biotechnology. It is equally important to create proper awareness about the developments in science and technology in a way the public can understand, a tall order, indeed!

And their goals and objectives...

Goals
To create public awareness about the potential benefits and perceived risks of biotechnology intervention in :

Sustainable development and utilization of natural resources
Human, animal and plant health
Environmental protection
To influence policies through partnering with academic and educational institutions anywhere in the world to promote quality in biotechnology education and training.


To influence public policy development to ensure safe and wider utilization of biotechnology.

Objectives
To publicize facts and figures related to problems in health, agriculture and environmental degradation and pollution, for which biotechnology offers promising solutions.


To provide a platform for students and teachers of biotechnology, and allied social sciences, to articulate their points of view and nurture them as ambassadors to promote safe and appropriate deployment of biotechnology.


To serve as a 'think tank' to influence public opinion and the Government policy developments in India around the world.


To publish and disseminate scientific material and data in biotechnology related areas that are of interest to the society at large.


To promote educational programs and support policies for the development of internationally competitive biotechnology curriculum at the university and collegiate levels in India.


To do all acts, matters, and things that are incidental or conducive to the attainment of the above objectives.
 
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Professor Baxter said:
No, they were not. I provided you a source and made some sense out of your muddled and vague claims. But you are still making grossly exaggerated claims that have not been supported by you or in the research I did for you.

They were not required to buy seeds from Monsanto. It may well be that their choices were so greatly limited with the restrictions on the seed saving that they were virtually forced to buy from Monsanto, but you have done nothing to establish that. Again, can you please provide some source to back up your claims of this and the more outlandish claims that it led to mass starvation? If not then you are done and offer nothing of value to this thread.

Repetition of hyperbole does not make it any more true.
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Since you insist upon denying reality;

[h=5]Paul Bremer’s Order 81[/h] From the earliest days of sedentary agriculture, farmers learned that saving seeds not only ensured that there would be a harvest in the following year, but that different strains of seeds could be manually selected and cross-bred to achieve more resistant plants or a greater yield in next year’s harvest. The practice led to the emergence of new wheat strains that were ideally adapted to the climatic and soil conditions in the region. Thus, over the course of hundreds and thousands of years, the farmers of what is modern-day Iraq taught the world the secrets of farming wheat and other crops. But the traditional ways of agriculture in Mesopotamia may be facing extinction unless a regulation enacted by former US governor Paul Bremer is rescinded. Under the terms of Bremer’s CPA Order 81 on “Patent, Industrial Design, Undisclosed Information, Integrated Circuits and Plant Variety”, enacted shortly before the formal handover of sovereignty last year, the Iraqi Patent and Industrial Designs Laws and Regulations (No. 65 of 1970) were amended. As a result, it is now illegal for Iraqi farmers to save up seeds from their latest harvest and use them for planting or crossbreeding in the next year’s crop – a practice that has been honored by farmers in the region since time immemorial. The preamble to Bremer’s Order 81 states that one of its goals is to ensure “that economic change as necessary to benefit the people of Iraq occurs in a manner acceptable to the people of Iraq”. But in paragraph 66 of the order, Iraqi wheat growers are expressly prohibited from saving their seeds for the next season: “Farmers shall be prohibited from re-using seeds of protected varieties,” the order says. These “protected” seeds include an increasing number of varieties that have been developed by indigenous farmers through manual selection over centuries, but have since been patented by international companies. Seeds that are distinguished from other known, registered varieties can be claimed as intellectual property by anyone, worldwide. Such seeds are by default considered to be “protected varieties”, and Iraqi farmers using them are required to destroy their entire seed stock at the end of a harvest.
[h=5]Seed savers targeted[/h] Under the new rules, local growers are forced instead to purchase annual licenses from corporations and will receive new seed every year. Many GM wheat strains are engineered to become barren in the next generation, to prevent farmers from reusing the seed. Even farmers who refuse to plant modified crops may be affected, as airborne cross-pollination from GM fields to non-GM fields is not unusual; however, even if cross-breeding is completely unintentional, the company owning the patent on certain genetic traits can claim the entire next generation as its own property. In several districts of Iraq, soldiers of the US Army’s 256th Brigade Combat Team (BCT) have been distributing free, genetically modified (GM) wheat seed to farmers since December last year, as part of “Operation Amber Waves”, an effort by the Agricultural Reconstruction and Development Program for Iraq (ARDI) to introduce “high-quality” seeds to the occupied country. According to US military reports, farmers received free wheat, barley, and fertilizer, as well as a “United Farmers of Iraq” T-shirt, as part of “Operation Amber Waves”. “Iraq’s wheat seed has been degraded tremendously because the farmers harvest their grain and then use the same wheat to replant,” Major Carrie Acree, a public relations officer serving with the 256th BCT, was quoted as saying. “What they have now is fit for livestock.” But other sources warn that the program is a thinly-disguised measure that will force Iraqi farmers to switch to GM seeds imported by US companies, and will outlaw the practice of saving seeds for the next year’s harvest. It is estimated that up to 97 per cent of Iraqi growers are seed savers or purchase locally-developed seed from local vendors, and rely on this technique for their livelihood.
[h=5]Creating dependencies[/h] The ARDI program is run by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) and aims to demonstrate measures to improve winter crops for the 2004/2005 harvest by distributing GM seed developed by US corporations. However, critics say that the measure will force the farmers to purchase licenses and make them completely reliant on foreign seed suppliers in the long term. One often-heard argument in favor of GM food is the promise of bumper crops that could end hunger in developing countries. But this vision depends on the willingness of farmers to become completely dependent on international corporations, and on their compliance with contracts in which they effectively sign away all rights to indigenously developed, local plant strains. Intellectual property rights can extend not just to a specific variety of genetic structure, but may apply to the resultant characteristics, such as a plant’s resistance to a particular pest. Any other strains that exhibit the same characteristic may then be regarded as infringing on that copyright, regardless of whether they were developed commercially through GM technology, or have emerged as the result of traditional seed retention and crossbreeding. Critics of GM agriculture say that Order 81 will eradicate plant diversity, place Iraqi farmers under the tutelage of international genetics companies, and force them into dependency on those corporations for the foreseeable future. At the same time, Bremer’s legislation creates more favorable conditions in Iraq for GM giants such as Monsanto or Syngenta than they could ever hope to encounter in a country with a functioning administration. With the almost complete disenfranchisement of farmers having become binding legislation, corporations will be able to force Iraqi growers into package deals that combine potent weed killers with seeds that have been genetically modified to withstand the chemical onslaught. Many GM companies face widespread resistance in developed countries, for example in the EU and Japan, and opponents say that Iraq may now become a testing ground for technology that is considered unacceptable, because too risky, in countries with a sovereign government.
 
Yeah, that is the source I provided and it does not say they are forced to buy seed from Monsanto. Do you read? It says exactly what I said it did.

There is also no information about any mass starvation.
 
Professor Baxter said:
Yeah, that is the source I provided and it does not say they are forced to buy seed from Monsanto. Do you read? It says exactly what I said it did.

There is also no information about any mass starvation.
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If they can't reuse seed, then they must buy it. Do you deny even that?
 
it is true that the articles posted show they weren't required to buy the seed, only that they were prevented from using the grain grown from it as seed for successive years.....
 
Rune said:
If they can't reuse seed, then they must buy it. Do you deny even that?
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No, I even acknowledged that they might be virtually forced to buy seed from Monsanto. But you have done nothing to establish that point and your more exaggerated claims about mass starvation have even less support.

I am sorry you seem to have such trouble supporting your claims. I don't know if it's just that you don't know how to, don't expect to have to or are too lazy, but just because you repeat it does not make it so.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the order. But it IS about patent laws and has nothing really to do with GMO or its safety. You claimed otherwise, but the title of the order even includes the word "patent" while there is nothing in it, specifically, about GMO or Monsanto. Also, if it is so terrible the new government can repeal it.

You are espousing a bunch of propaganda and lies.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
it is true that the articles posted show they weren't required to buy the seed, only that they were prevented from using the grain grown from it as seed for successive years.....
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Yes precisely, so then they have got you by the balls. It is not a lot different to how a heroin dealer operates.
 
Professor Baxter said:
No, I even acknowledged that they might be virtually forced to buy seed from Monsanto. But you have done nothing to establish that point and your more exaggerated claims about mass starvation have even less support.

I am sorry you seem to have such trouble supporting your claims. I don't know if it's just that you don't know how to, don't expect to have to or are too lazy, but just because you repeat it does not make it so.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the order. But it IS about patent laws and has nothing really to do with GMO or its safety. You claimed otherwise, but the title of the order even includes the word "patent" while there is nothing in it, specifically, about GMO or Monsanto. Also, if it is so terrible the new government can repeal it.

You are espousing a bunch of propaganda and lies.
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No, I quoted directly from your source.
 
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