Why Is It So Hard To Get Mentally Ill Into Treatment

PostmodernProphet said:
people should not have a right to unknowingly do themselves bodily harm.....
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This is the crux of the family's problem in the article with their son. How does one define harm? Living on the street isn't exactly healthy yet if you aren't trying to kill yourself where is the line drawn for what is considered harm?
 
cawacko said:
A lot of it is where I live. The question is do we go back to the old days where you can lock the mentally ill up and almost go as far as throw away the key? Or where to draw the line.
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I think the line is the important part. Who decides? How soon before that line creeps towards behaviors that the government doesn't like such as "denying climate change"?
 
cawacko said:
This is the crux of the family's problem in the article with their son. How does one define harm? Living on the street isn't exactly healthy yet if you aren't trying to kill yourself where is the line drawn for what is considered harm?
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This is awful for any family. Where do you think the line should be?

Maybe the mentally ill living on the streets, defining their own quality of life and refusing medical care. aren't the crazy ones

" According to a recent study by Johns Hopkins, more than 250,000 people in the United States die every year because of medical mistakes, making it the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.Feb 22, 2018"
 
Bigdog said:
"On Feb. 5, 1963, 50 years ago this week, President John F. Kennedy addressed Congress on "Mental Illness and Mental Retardation." He proposed a new program under which the federal government would fund community mental-health centers, or CMHCs, to take the place of state mental hospitals. As Kennedy envisioned it, "reliance on the cold mercy of custodial isolations will be supplanted by the open warmth of community concern and capability."

President Kennedy's proposal was historic because the public care of mentally ill individuals had been exclusively a state responsibility for more than a century. The federal initiative encouraged the closing of state hospitals and aborted the development of state-funded outpatient clinics in process at that time. ... "

http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter....-fifty-years-of-failing-americas-mentally-ill

So much for liberal mythology :dunno:
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Doesn't change the threshold for competency was lowered after Ronnie got his boo boo
 
countryboy said:
I know, it's always anybody but the Democrats fault. How do you live with being so perfect?

Soooooo, what have Dems done about the problem since Reagan? I mean, other than whine and do nothing.
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I understand that the facts bother you. 'What about'? isn't a response. You would have to understand how the legislative process works. I'll wait until you catch up.
 
Kacper said:
Not just a California problem. Nationally the GOP's fingerprints are all over this one because they were pissed they didn't get to chop off the head of the man who shot their precious Ronnie Ray-Gun
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Ronnie was also responsible for gutting mental health programs, thanks Ronnie
 
For one thing, certain types of people are resistant to the ideas of treatment, and won't seek it. I'd take a guess and say, there are probably more untreated mental patients, then treated ones. Money, and insurance issues, issues of ego, lack of facility, etc, are all issues in this field. Without my government disability, I'd have issue getting my help for my intrusive thought OCD, and neural issues.
 
Kacper said:
Not just a California problem. Nationally the GOP's fingerprints are all over this one because they were pissed they didn't get to chop off the head of the man who shot their precious Ronnie Ray-Gun
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You're right, it's not just a California problem nor is this a thread ripping on California. It's a discussion about what we are trying to do about it. However no one wants to talk about that. They want to talk about 50 years ago.
 
cawacko said:
You're right, it's not just a California problem nor is this a thread ripping on California. It's a discussion about what we are trying to do about it. However no one wants to talk about that. They want to talk about 50 years ago.
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It was 37 years ago or thereabouts :rolleyes:

So what do you want to do about it? If you want a starting point, people should have to go through a background check and mental evaluation before they are allowed to register with either party.

How about we cut off disability for mental patients. If they cannot function on their own, institutionalize them.

There are lots of tactics that can be used, but whatever you support, it will be misused as well.
 
cawacko said:
I've only been to Utah twice but I didn't see near the number of people living on the streets as I do here. What, if anything, do they do diferent?
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I don't know where "here" for you is, but up until the police started jailing the homeless, they seemed to be "everywhere" from 400 West to 900 East. Many of them have moved to the Jordan River bottoms and southeast to Liberty Park.
 
jimmymccready said:
I don't know where "here" for you is, but up until the police started jailing the homeless, they seemed to be "everywhere" from 400 West to 900 East. Many of them have moved to the Jordan River bottoms and southeast to Liberty Park.
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Here being SF. Fair enough regarding Utah. I've haven't been there enough to fully understand the depth of the problem. I just saw clean streets in my short time there
 
cawacko said:
I've only been to Utah twice but I didn't see near the number of people living on the streets as I do here. What, if anything, do they do diferent?
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cawacko said:
Here being SF. Fair enough regarding Utah. I've haven't been there enough to fully understand the depth of the problem. I just saw clean streets in my short time there
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Yes, I have heard SF is having a horrible problem.

Utah's problem began growing about 2010 and crested in 2016. It was horrible. A joint city-count-state task force barricaded streets, blocked vehicle traffic, and began doing drug sweeps. It took about a year to get it under control, but there is still more than back "in the day."

And, yes, SLC is one of the cleanest most beautiful cities in the western US.
 
cawacko said:
This is the crux of the family's problem in the article with their son. How does one define harm? Living on the street isn't exactly healthy yet if you aren't trying to kill yourself where is the line drawn for what is considered harm?
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I think when you consider the life expectancy of a person living unsheltered it isn't hard to conclude that there is harm involved......
 
Phantasmal said:
Ronnie was also responsible for gutting mental health programs, thanks Ronnie
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here is an excellent article on the issue which spells out why it WASN'T Reagan who was responsible.....
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Reagan-close-mental-hospitals

the POLICY of the federal government in particular to move away from hospital care for those deemed mentally ill did not derive from Reagan, but a President before him named Kennedy. JFK was the first one who proposed, and had passed, policies with started such a process. The idea was that “community-based care” was much more humane than the often institutional brutality found in state hospitals run for the mentally ill in particular, and private hospitals as well.
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