APP - Why isn't communism hated as much as nazism?

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canceled.2021.1

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It's also interesting given that stalin killed far more people than hitler did.

The reason, as we all know, is because liberals are cultural marxists.
 
Well, for starters, the USSR was one of the Allies in WWII. Despite our numerous attacks on Communist nations, they have not attacked us.
 
You’re powers of observation lack something to be desired. Communism is far more hated because outside of a handful of extremists knuckle heads there aren’t to many Nazis to hate. Yet virtually every one in this nation born before the collapse of communism in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe was taught from birth to hate and fear communism and communist.

If people speak of Stalin or Mao they do so in the same light as Hitler. Murderous thugs who killed millions. If you don’t see the hate there it’s because you’re not looking.
 
The Zax said:
It's also interesting given that stalin killed far more people than hitler did.

The reason, as we all know, is because liberals are cultural marxists.
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Wrong again Grind. During the Nazis era Hitler was responsible for 11 million noncombatants deaths. During the Stalin era around 7 million died. Both we’re pickers compared to Mao who was responsible for the deaths of over 40 million people.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Wrong again Grind. During the Nazis era Hitler was responsible for 11 million noncombatants deaths. During the Stalin era around 7 million died. Both we’re pickers compared to Mao who was responsible for the deaths of over 40 million people.
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The published results vary depending on the time when the estimate was made, on the criteria and methods used for the estimates, and sources available for estimates. Some historians attempt to make separate estimates for different periods of the Soviet history, with casualties for the Stalinist period varying from 8 to 61 million.[SUP][57][/SUP][SUP][58][/SUP][SUP][59]

[/SUP]Several scholars, among them Stalin biographer Simon Sebag Montefiore, former Politburo member Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev and the director of Yale's "Annals of Communism" series Jonathan Brent, put the death toll at about 20 million.[SUP][60][/SUP][SUP][61][/SUP][SUP][62][/SUP][SUP][63][/SUP][SUP][64][/SUP][SUP][65][/SUP][SUP][66[/SUP][SUP]

wikipedia ^
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[/SUP]​almost every source out there has the estimated total at least 20 million, with a high end range of at least 60. I've usually heard around 20million. Perhaps you should do more research.
 
The Zax said:

The published results vary depending on the time when the estimate was made, on the criteria and methods used for the estimates, and sources available for estimates. Some historians attempt to make separate estimates for different periods of the Soviet history, with casualties for the Stalinist period varying from 8 to 61 million.[SUP][57][/SUP][SUP][58][/SUP][SUP][59]

[/SUP]Several scholars, among them Stalin biographer Simon Sebag Montefiore, former Politburo member Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev and the director of Yale's "Annals of Communism" series Jonathan Brent, put the death toll at about 20 million.[SUP][60][/SUP][SUP][61][/SUP][SUP][62][/SUP][SUP][63][/SUP][SUP][64][/SUP][SUP][65][/SUP][SUP][66[/SUP][SUP]

wikipedia ^
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[/SUP]​almost every source out there has the estimated total at least 20 million, with a high end range of at least 60. I've usually heard around 20million. Perhaps you should do more research.
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That was common estimations before the Russians recently opened their Archival records to the weed then the estimate was lowered to 6 to 9 million as most of the Stalinist victims of the Gulags actually survived where previous to opening those records it was believed most of them had died. That was a wrong assumption. Stalin was a picker compared to Mao.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You’re powers of observation lack something to be desired. Communism is far more hated because outside of a handful of extremists knuckle heads there aren’t to many Nazis to hate. Yet virtually every one in this nation born before the collapse of communism in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe was taught from birth to hate and fear communism and communist.

If people speak of Stalin or Mao they do so in the same light as Hitler. Murderous thugs who killed millions. If you don’t see the hate there it’s because you’re not looking.
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Your mate Iolo is a Trotskyite, as is BAC and Watermark I suspect.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That was common estimations before the Russians recently opened their Archival records to the weed then the estimate was lowered to 6 to 9 million as most of the Stalinist victims of the Gulags actually survived where previous to opening those records it was believed most of them had died. That was a wrong assumption. Stalin was a picker compared to Mao.
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Two of my great uncles, and my aunt's husband survived the gulag. And were subsequently "rehabilitated" post-Stalin.

The Soviets were our allies, and played the crucial and pivotal role in defeating the Nazis and ending Hitler. As someone else in the thread noted, that does make a difference.

Stalin was a Georgian thug who had a penchant for imprisoning or murdering political opponents, real or perceived.

Hitler was a genocidal mass murderer who was intent on murdering or enslaving everyone of certain ethnicities that didn't measure up to his Aryan master race; so called subhumans that were deemed a threat to the noble Germanic races. As cruel and inhumane as the Gulag was, it had nothing remotely close to the clinical, industrialized methods of mass murder invented by the Nazis.

With all that said, I think more scrutiny and scholarly attention should be devoted to the Gulag. Which was undoubtedly a great crime against humanity, though its roots really in fact go back to tsarist times. The Russian author Anton Chekhov chronicled the inhumanity of the Siberian labor camps in the 1890s, so this penal system did not just suddenly emerge under Stalin. There is a reason the word "Siberia" has been a metaphor for cruel punishment for over a century.

The problem is, the Russians are unwilling to dig up that dirty part of their past. It's really up to them to shed light on it. I have heard Russians say they recognize Stalin's crimes against humanity, but they want to focus on building the new Russia and digging up the darkness of the past will sidetrack them from that mission. So, for now at least, we pretty much have to recognize Solzhenitsyn as the great Russian truth teller on the Gulag archipelago.
 
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Cypress said:
Two of my great uncles, and my aunt's husband survived the gulag. And were subsequently "rehabilitated" post-Stalin.

The Soviets were our allies, and played the crucial and pivotal role in defeating the Nazis and ending Hitler. As someone else in the thread noted, that does make a difference.

Stalin was a Georgian thug who had a penchant for imprisoning or murdering political opponents, real or perceived.

Hitler was a genocidal mass murderer who was intent on murdering or enslaving everyone of certain ethnicities that didn't measure up to his Aryan master race; so called subhumans that were deemed a threat to the noble Germanic races. As cruel and inhumane as the Gulag was, it had nothing remotely close to the clinical, industrialized methods of mass murder invented by the Nazis.

With all that said, I think more scrutiny and scholarly attention should be devoted to the Gulag. Which was undoubtedly a great crime against humanity, though its roots really in fact go back to tsarist times. The Russian author Anton Chekhov chronicled the inhumanity of the Siberian labor camps in the 1890s, so this penal system did not just suddenly emerge under Stalin. There is a reason the word "Siberia" has been a metaphor for cruel punishment for over a century.

The problem is, the Russians are unwilling to dig up that dirty part of their past. It's really up to them to shed light on it. I have heard Russians say they recognize Stalin's crimes against humanity, but they want to focus on building the new Russia and digging up the darkness of the past will sidetrack them from that mission. So, for now at least, we pretty much have to recognize Solzhenitsyn as the great Russian truth teller on the Gulag archipelago.
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Believe it or not I first read Gulag when I was 12. What I found striking was the difference between how common criminals and political prisoners were treated and often the sheep to the slaughter mentality of many Gulag victims.
 
Right said:
Because Democrats love socialism, which isn't that far from outright communism.
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oh you mean like you Republicans adore authoritarianism and believe only a strongman leader “Der Fuhrer” can lead a nation to the promised land and your contempt for Democratic institutions which isn’t that far from fascism.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
oh you mean like you Republicans adore authoritarianism and believe only a strongman leader “Der Fuhrer” can lead a nation to the promised land and your contempt for Democratic institutions which isn’t that far from fascism.
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Nice try, building those two straw men.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Believe it or not I first read Gulag when I was 12. What I found striking was the difference between how common criminals and political prisoners were treated and often the sheep to the slaughter mentality of many Gulag victims.
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Holy smoke, you were reading Gulag Archipelago while the rest of us were playing football and video games? I give you a five star geek rating, sir! Well done! Or as we would say in Russian, Молодец!

I am not sure I agree with the "sheep to the slaughter" characterization, which is a metaphor sometimes used in unflattering, even derogatory contexts. My relatives were rounded up by Soviet soldiers. There is not much an unarmed civilian can do against squads of heavily armed soldiers.

Second, even when arrested I don't think they thought they were necessarily destined for murder and death. As you pointed out, as inhumane as the Gulag was, many people survived their incarceration through sheer determination and fortitude. From what I know, my immediate relatives survived the labor camps.

Third, penal systems and concentration camp guards are well trained into using psychology and physical infrastructure to control, pacify, and manipulate penal convicts. The opportunities for open revolt in concentration camps and labor colonies were simply far and few between. I am sure you are probably aware of this.

The Sheep to the Slaughter metaphor is also kind of unfair to the jews of the holocaust. I heard stories in Minsk that the jewish ghetto there was the scene of assassinations of German officers and clandestine acts of sabotage.... You know who likes a good story about kicking Nazi ass? Me! That's who!
 
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