Will Alabama Uphold Segregation?

TheRocketSurgeon said:
Where in this thread does Dixie correct himself on who is in control of the state legislature. He corrected his knee jerk reaction claiming the current referendum was the one proposed in 2004 but I don't see him correcting the error on who controls the state house. WB and I pointed that out. He still is quite confused about the referendum from 2004, the current one and what is actually in his state's Constitution. It seems very odd to me that a resident would have trouble remembering a historic election like 2010's or that a person that is a proud member of a movement to rewrite the state Constitution would have so little knowledge of the Constitution or the previous attempts to amend it. I do not claim to be a resident of Alabama and I could see his errors easily. I think, Dixie has been lying to us.
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You think?
 
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I'm not confused at all. The 2004 proposition establishing public education as a constitutional right, did not pass. So yes, the constitution still maintains it's not a constitutional right, which is why they can't enact a school tax. The new proposition re-affirms that it's not a constitutional right, and removes the segregation-era language... so why are the people supposedly so concerned with the language, opposing the new version? If this were just about removing the language, and it doesn't really change the current issue of constitutionality, it seems they would support it, but they don't.


And no, Stringy, the proposition itself is not proposing a tax increase, I never said it did. In 2004, the proposition would have established constitutionality for the state to levy a school tax. It was rejected, in spite of all the name calling. In 2012, it simply reaffirms what is already the law of the land in Alabama, that it's NOT a constitutional right, thus NOT giving the state such authority to levy a school tax. Both propositions called for removing the offensive language.
 
Dixie said:
I'm not confused at all. The 2004 proposition establishing public education as a constitutional right, did not pass. So yes, the constitution still maintains it's not a constitutional right, which is why they can't enact a school tax. The new proposition re-affirms that it's not a constitutional right, and removes the segregation-era language... so why are the people supposedly so concerned with the language, opposing the new version? If this were just about removing the language, and it doesn't really change the current issue of constitutionality, it seems they would support it, but they don't.


And no, Stringy, the proposition itself is not proposing a tax increase, I never said it did. In 2004, the proposition would have established constitutionality for the state to levy a school tax. It was rejected, in spite of all the name calling. In 2012, it simply reaffirms what is already the law of the land in Alabama, that it's NOT a constitutional right, thus NOT giving the state such authority to levy a school tax. Both propositions called for removing the offensive language.
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Then you are lying and not only about your residency. The 2004 referendum had nothing to do with establishing a Constitutional right to an education. The language declaring that there is no constitutional right to an education IS a part of the segregation era language. Removing it does not establish a right to an education it simply removes ALL of the segregation era language.
 
TheRocketSurgeon said:
Then you are lying and not only about your residency. The 2004 referendum had nothing to do with establishing a Constitutional right to an education. The language declaring that there is no constitutional right to an education IS a part of the segregation era language. Removing it does not establish a right to an education it simply removes ALL of the segregation era language.
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That's how the Prince of Dense rolls.

After he admits he "forgot", he claims he immediately corrected his "error" and then claims he was "right" all along.
 
TheRocketSurgeon said:
Then you are lying and not only about your residency. The 2004 referendum had nothing to do with establishing a Constitutional right to an education. The language declaring that there is no constitutional right to an education IS a part of the segregation era language. Removing it does not establish a right to an education it simply removes ALL of the segregation era language.
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No.. follow closely pinhead... the 2004 proposition would have removed the segregation-era language which does indicate no constitutional right, which was the basis for the segregation-era language post-desegregation, but it would have replaced it with the opposite position of the constitutionality for public education, enabling the state to establish a school tax. The 2012 version also removes the segregation-era language, which includes the same thing it included in 2004, since that was never changed, and replaces it with non-segregation-era language that reaffirms there is no constitutional right to public education, thereby continuing to prohibit the state from establishing a school tax.

Go find and read the 2004 proposition, it DOES include the proposition that education is a constitutional right, and that was the basis for why it was rejected by the voters of the state, overwhelmingly.
 
TheRocketSurgeon said:
Here is the text of the 2004 amendment. It does not establish any right to an education and adds NOTHING to the state Constitution. It only deletes the text added to twart desegregation. There is no way anyone can read this as being a tax increase. That is just the bullshit lie spread by racists like Roy Moore and Ditzy to defeat it.

http://arc-sos.state.al.us/PAC/SOSACPDF.001/A0002466.PDF
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I can't copy from the PDF, but it's on page 4 and it's even underlined. It repeals the provision regarding constitutionality.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong.
 
Dixie said:
I can't copy from the PDF, but it's on page 4 and it's even underlined. It repeals the provision regarding constitutionality.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong.
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You dumbass. It's not underlined. It's a strikethrough. It repeals ALL of the language added to thwart desegregation, exactly as I said. It does not add anything, it is not a tax increase.

You don't know what is going on in Alabama and you live there then it is under a rock.
 
It is exactly what I told you it was. You claimed it added text recognizing a right to an education and allowed for a tax increase. It does not ADD anything to the Constitution. It merely repealed ALL of the language added to thwart segregation.
 
Dixie said:
Dishonest democrats in Alabama continue to try and pass tax increases by attaching them to this proposal, then when they fail to pass, claiming people were "racists" because they didn't support it. The language is meaningless, as you point out, the SCOTUS has ruled segregation unconstitutional. There are also many in Alabama who are advocating a constitutional convention, so we can completely re-write our "world's longest" constitution. Adding another 30 amendments to it, seems a bit counterproductive to that idea.

We're simply not going to be bullied and intimidated into passing tax increases, under the guise of "combating segregation" because it is a silly nonsensical argument. If Democrats want to submit a clean referendum to remove the language, fine... do that, and we'll vote to eliminate it. But stop trying to pass a tax increase by attaching it to this and trying to make it about racism. It's NOT going to fly!
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Where was that tax increase?
 
Dixie said:
Stringy, I live here, I know what is going on. The Alabama state legislature is predominately Democrat, they have tried to do this before, as you mentioned. Yes, what you posted is what the Constitution does say, but the language is outdated since segregation is unconstitutional. They want to pass a tax increase, and they have tried to attach this to a proposition calling for the removal of this language... it hasn't worked, the people see through it. We're fucking NOT going to pass a tax increase so that antiquated and outdated irrelevant language can be removed from a Constitution that needs to be entirely rewritten anyway... just not going to happen, dude!

Now you can call us "racists" and claim we want to "keep segregation" and make any other wild outlandish claims you please, we're STILL NOT GOING TO PASS A TAX INCREASE! SORRY!
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WHere was that tax increase and when did you correct your error about the composition of the state legislature?
 
TheRocketSurgeon said:
It is exactly what I told you it was. You claimed it added text recognizing a right to an education and allowed for a tax increase. It does not ADD anything to the Constitution. It merely repealed ALL of the language added to thwart segregation.
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No it's exactly what you lied and told me it wasn't. I said that the proposition sought to change the constitutionality of the right to education, so that they could, in turn, impose a school tax. That was exactly what the text of the proposition stated, as you proved. That was the sole purpose and intent of the proposition, it was cleverly hidden behind the excuse of eliminating segregationist language, and it FAILED TO PASS!
 
Dixie said:
Reading further on this, I have discovered this version is a revamp of the 2004 version without the tax increase language, and THAT is why Democrats now oppose the very same proposition they supported in 2004. It's a matter of "turn about is fair play." In 2004, the added provision was to declare that public education was a right, thereby paving the way for a massive school tax increase... that was why it was strongly opposed and rejected. So now, they have taken that provision and reversed it, and the same people who supported it in 2004, are now opposed to it. This PROVES the proposition has nothing to do with removing the offensive language, and everything to do with installing language which will enable a massive school tax. The voters will decide.
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Where was the tax increase and where did they add a provision declaring that public education was a right?
 
Dixie said:
Well there is nothing anyone can do about their history. Sorry, we're not going to crawl in a hole and die because of our past. Wish we could make that happen for ya, but it's not gonna. So what we can do, is move forward and stop looking back at the past, and realize the mistakes we made, with the resolve to not make the same mistakes again. No one has to "pay the price" for past mistakes. The fact that you seem to think that is the case, reveals a level of bigoted hatred in your own heart, and that's something I can't ever fix, so I won't worry about it much.

As much as I am tempted to support the proposition this time, I still can't support it on principle. I want the State of Alabama to hold a constitutional convention and rewrite the whole damn thing, and adding 30 more amendments is not the direction I want to take at this time. As I said, if they want to give me a proposition to simply remove the offensive language and nothing more, I'll support that, as will about 90% of the state, but that hasn't been proposed.
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Wow, you still oppose even without the tax increase that was not in the first one. I understand, you are a man of principle and all. lol
 
TheRocketSurgeon said:
WHere was that tax increase and when did you correct your error about the composition of the state legislature?
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I'm not going to run around in circles for you like some kind of poodle at a dog show, idiot. I admitted my error almost as soon as I made it, and I've RE-clarified that about a half dozen times now. If you just want to "WIN" an argument here, more power to ya! But I'm not here to do puppy tricks. The tax increase wasn't IN the proposition to change the constitutionality of the right to education. Tax increases have to be voted on in separate bills, when the constitution allows for that, which it currently doesn't, with regard to school taxes. Can you not get that through your brick-like skull? The proposition was to change the constitutionality regarding rights to public education, so as to ENABLE a school tax, which would have come at a later date in a completely separate piece of legislation, not a proposition on the ballot. As it currently stands in Alabama, it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for the legislature to vote on and pass a school tax....that means they CAN'T DO IT!
 
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