Will they show the footage from 9/11 on the anniversary?

AnyOldIron said:
We also didn't have FEMA and we didn't think it was the President's responsibility to rescue the people who failed to evacuate!

But after Carter initated FEMA as a government department, the POTUS did become responsible.

You are comparing times when the POTUS wasn't responsible to times when he was?
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No, I am comparing a time when people had the sense God gave a billy-goat, against NOW! The "responsibility" of any president, is to sign executive orders, declaring a national disaster. That is really ALL the president does, and ALL he is responsible for doing, in the event of ANY national disaster. Bush did this the day before the hurricane made landfall, which was a FIRST! Never before, had a president issued a national disaster order BEFORE the disaster! ....I'll point that out one more time for the slow... NEVER BEFORE had the president issued a national disaster order, BEFORE the disaster!

Now, you can argue that FEMA and the Feds acted slowly, were incompetent, dropped the ball, whatever... but the president fulfilled any responsibility he had, and did so a day before the storm made landfall, which was not ever done before Katrina.
 
Now, you can argue that FEMA and the Feds acted slowly, were incompetent, dropped the ball, whatever... but the president fulfilled any responsibility he had, and did so a day before the storm made landfall, which was not ever done before Katrina.

Oh, I get you. The notion that a commander holds responsibility for his subalterns doesn't work with Bush.

The buck stops anywhere else but with the boss eh?

Hell of a leader you've got there...
 
Dixie you know its all Bush's fault no matter who's to blame. Hell he controls hurricanes and sends them where he wants too if you listen to many of these Bush haters. i guess that's why his brother is kept so busy with hurricanes in Florida. He just loves messing with his brother.
 
Dixie you know its all Bush's fault no matter who's to blame. Hell he controls hurricanes and sends them where he wants too if you listen to many of these Bush haters. i guess that's why his brother is kept so busy with hurricanes in Florida. He just loves messing with his brother.

You type junk like this and call yourself Commander of Rhetoric? LOL

Who's stating Bush is responsible for the hurricane?

We're stating that Bush is responsible for his subordinates. Bush is responsible for the response to the hurricane by his subordinates.

You and Dixie seem to believe that as leader, Bush isn't responsible for his subordinates? That the buck stops elsewhere?

Your defence of your beloved is that he can abdicate his responsibilities if he makes a cock-up.

What a great leader...
 
It's not a matter of "where the buck stops" because, before FEMA, the federal government had absolutely no responsibility in disaster relief, and it's indeed, not enumerated in the Constitution. Before Katrina, the government was expected (through FEMA) to render disaster relief after such events, although there has never been a Constitutional obligation on the part of the Federal government to do so. In the aftermath of Katrina, we seem to have adopted the thinking that the Federal government is responsible completely, not only for helping out after the disaster, but in helping to evacuate the people and protect them from any danger... not only is the Federal government responsible, but the president is personally responsible!
 
Whether the Feds should do this was debated long ago in a land long before there were automobiles during a flood in the Mississippi valley...
 
Damocles said:
Whether the Feds should do this was debated long ago in a land long before there were automobiles during a flood in the Mississippi valley...
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Actually, the first known Federal Disaster Relief, came in 1810, after a fire destroyed a major city. Although the Constitution does not provide for this Federal relief, we have authorized it through the years, cullminating in the formation of FEMA. Since that time, we've become more and more dependent on the Federal government to provide relief, and we are now at a point, where idiot morons like Prissy, think the Feds are supposed to be the first responders, and if they fail, it's the president's fault.

There is NO obligation for the Feds to render disaster relief, and there certainly is no responsibility of the Feds to insure cities are evacuated or to organize pre-hurricane preparedness for these people, that is, and always has been, the function of state and local government. The Feds role is limited to post-disaster relief, and only because we authorized it, not because it is written in the Constitution.
 
We're stating that Bush is responsible for his subordinates.

What do we have, about 20 million people who work for the Federal government? And you think the president is responsible for each of their actions? Okay.... let's just remember that when a Democrat is elected.

The president did what presidents are authorized to do, and he did it a day before the disaster, which no president has ever done before. If there were failures in other sectors of government, it is not the fault of the president, and aside from the president firing them, as he did the FEMA director, there is little the president can do about failure of government agencies. Bush doesn't manage FEMA, he doesn't drive a fire truck, he isn't supposed to be piling up sand bags or handing out blankets, he has no further responsibility, other than to issue a national disaster order, which he did, earlier than any president has for any previous disaster.
 
Dixie said:
In 1938 New England had a devastating Hurricane that killed over 600 people, it was called the Long Island Express...

Did anyone blame FDR for not responding fast enough to save these people?

If you read what I posted, you will see I give credit for the Feds helping in disaster relief, as early as the 1800's. Despite the lack of basis in the Constitution, we have always felt compelled to help our neighbors in time of need, that has never changed, and I would never suggest it should. Indeed, Arnold is correct, until Carter formed FEMA, the Feds really had no responsibility or obligation, they helped, as they always have, but they weren't expected to save the people from danger or rescue those who didn't evacuate. Now, of course, we understand the government's role, and we've established that the POTUS is ultimately responsible for disasters. I just hope we'll remember this when a Democrat is president. I have my doubts.
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Big government building codes prevent this type of disaster from occuring anymore!
 
Dixie said:
What the fuck are you talking about? Hurricane disasters still happen, dufuss!
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When was the last time a hurricane in the United States killed much more than 1000 people?

If many people people die due to hurricanes now its in the aftermath and not buildings falling on them. Its the same with earthquakes. Ever wonder why when an 8.0 hits the United States not near as many die as when an 8.0 hits Mexico City?
 
Do you not see that deaths vs. population affected when you compare Katrina to the Long Island Express there have been amazing accomphishments mostly due to building codes.

The deaths in Katrina were mostly due to government failure after the storm v. the deaths in The Long Island Express which were due to building collapse.
 
Jarod said:
Do you not see that deaths vs. population affected when you compare Katrina to the Long Island Express there have been amazing accomphishments mostly due to building codes.

The deaths in Katrina were mostly due to government failure after the storm v. the deaths in The Long Island Express which were due to building collapse.
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Don't ever forget that dixie's orginal premise in the thread, was predicated on his "outrage" that when when hurricanes hit us in 1667, 1821, and 1935, the Presidents back then "didn't try to warn us" the day before they hit.

Dixie wasn't aware that there weren't weather satellties and radar in 1821 or 1935.
 
Cypress said:
Don't ever forget that dixie's orginal premise in the thread, was predicated on his "outrage" that when when hurricanes hit us in 1667, 1821, and 1935, the Presidents back then "didn't try to warn us" the day before they hit.

Dixie wasn't aware that there weren't weather satellties and radar in 1821 or 1935.
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ROTFLMAO!
 
Cypress said:
Don't ever forget that dixie's orginal premise in the thread, was predicated on his "outrage" that when when hurricanes hit us in 1667, 1821, and 1935, the Presidents back then "didn't try to warn us" the day before they hit.

Dixie wasn't aware that there weren't weather satellties and radar in 1821 or 1935.
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Are you pinheads taking medication today or something? I never made such a premise, you ignorantly devised such a premise and I whacked you over the head with it the other day, why do you continue to blather? Here is the point you seem to be missing, in 1667, there was no FEMA, there was no Federal relief effort, because there was no nation, and the people effected by the hurricane, had to rebuild their cities on their own, without any help from FEMA or the President who didn't even exist. They somehow managed! In 1821, there was a Federal government, but no FEMA, and it wasn't expected that the Feds would rebuild the cities destroyed in 1821, because that wasn't outlined in the Constitution, they didn't rebuild San Francisco after the Great Quake, or Chicago after the Big Fire, and those cities somehow managed to survive. In 1935, there was no FEMA, there was aerial tracking of the hurricane, and there was a somewhat liberal president at the time, and he utilized his post-depression work programs to assist in helping rebuilding the cities which were destroyed, but Roosevelt was not expected to be responsible for the pre-disaster planning or evacuation, nor was he criticized for lack of timely response, although Federal relief came weeks later, he provided assistance after the fact, and it was limited assistance at that.

Now that we have discussed these events, let's discuss hurricanes prior to Katrina, like Camille in 1969 or Frederic in 1979, where HUD and FEMA provided relief and helped to rebuild the cities, again... AFTER the disaster. There is no Constitutional provision for the Federal government to do this, and certainly no obligation on their part, but being the benevolent liberal-minded society we are, it was authorized anyway. The presidents in 1969 and 1979 both had access to radar, and both knew of the hurricanes before they made landfall, and at least one of them knew the devastation would be enormous... Carter may not have... but in any event, neither of them issued a National Disaster order, because this is not a Federal 'obligation' or responsibility until AFTER the disaster happens. (Keep in mind, it's still not a Constitutional responsibility of the Feds in the first place.)

This was the case until President George Walker Bush became the first president in history to issue a National Disaster directive, before the actual disaster occurred. Something I bet the Liberal Media won't tell you, while they take their cheap shots at the Administration. Bush actually violated the Federalist tenants of the Constitution in doing so, and this would have more 'impeachable' ramifications than anything else he has done as president, if the case were to be made. The POTUS does not have authority to declare a Federal national disaster on an area before there has been a disaster. If this were so, he could simply declare Crawford, TX a national disaster and send them a few hundred billion of our tax dollars! So, the president is not supposed to issue a National Disaster directive BEFORE the disaster, it's never been done in our history, and actually violates the Constitutional authority of the POTUS to do so... but Bush did it, he exceeded his presidential authority and declared New Orleans, Louisiana, and Mississippi/Alabama gulf coast regions, a national disaster, the day before Katrina made landfall.

So, I think it is fitting that we also celebrate the anniversary of these other hurricanes, and pay tribute to the people of those cities, who have had to rebuild without the Feds help, and weren't even protected from the hurricane by the government, at all! Katrina has been given more relief than any other hurricane in history, as well as a one-day head start over all other disasters! I think there are other anniversaries that are worth celebrating here, people who are a whole lot more worthy of praise, for picking themselves up by the bootstraps and rebuilding their own cities. Galveston, Cape Hatteras, Homestead, Gulfport/Biloxi, Mobile, Key West! Hell, the whole state of Florida! Those people were hit with 5 hurricanes in one year! Let's celebrate THAT anniversary! Everyone put a blue tarp on your roof in honor of our Floridian friends!
 
Dixie said:
Not the terror attacks, but the worst hurricane to ever make landfall in
Alabama? 9/11/1979 Hurricane Frederic... This marks the first hurricane
responded to by FEMA, that should make it noteworthy enough for anniversary celebration. Before Jimmy
Carter made FEMA an agency, the responsibility for disaster relief in
America was sketchy. Now, we fully understand, if the federal government isn't there to save us, it's because of the president.

It's interesting, five years after 9/11, and we're told "it's too soon" to see movies about 9/11, yet the very same people will rush to show footage of Katrina, and re-live it for a week on prime time. It's almost as if they have a 'political agenda' or something.

In honor of our recently found need to celebrate the anniversaries of
hurricanes, I felt compelled to note a few other hurricanes we should add to
the 'calendar of events' in the coming days. MSNBC and CNN could actually do
a special each night, on their anniversaries....

Sept. 1- Hurricane Carol (1954) --Struck the NE coast with 120 m.p.h.
winds, leaving dozens of fatalities in her wake. In 1990 dollars, the total
storm damage from Carol was $2,370,215,000, the 10th costliest hurricane in
U.S. history.

Sept. 2- Labor Day Hurricane 1935-- The full life history of the hurricane
that devastated some of the Florida Keys on the afternoon and night of Labor
Day, September 2, 1935, covers almost 2 weeks. It is believed to be the
lowest recorded Mb level in the western hemisphere, but instruments were not
always accurate in that time.

Sept. 3, 1821: One of the most violent hurricanes on record. The eye passed over Norfolk,VA then moved northeast along the New Jersey coast onto Long Island. The effects of this storm, actually formed the Hatteras and Oregon
Inlets in North Carolina.


Sept. 4- Hurricane Donna (1960) --Donna holds the record for retaining "major hurricane" status (category 3 or greater on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale) in the Atlantic Basin for the longest period of time on record. For nine days, September 2 to September 11, Donna consistently had sustained winds of at least 115 mph. From the moment it became a tropical depression to when it dissipated after becoming an extratropical storm, Donna roamed the Atlantic from August 29 to September 14, a total of 17 days. While crossing the Atlantic Donna briefly achieved Category 5
strength. It effected every single state on the eastern seaboard of the US.

Sept. 5- Unnamed Hurricane (1667)-- According to the writing of Virginia colonists, The Chesapeake Bay rose 12 feet, probably widening the Lynnhaven River. Jamestown saw 10,000 houses blown down and the storm washed away the foundation of Fort George at Old Point Comfort. Twelve days of rain was said to have followed this storm.

Sept. 6- Hurricane 'Dog' (1950) While crossing the Lesser Antilles,
Hurricane Dog brought strong winds and rain. The islands of Antigua and
Barbuda reported $1 million in damage to houses, roads, trees, and power
lines. 2 people were killed when their boat sank. Though it never made
landfall in New England, passing over 100 miles away, its strong winds still
caused 12 casualties, 11 by sinking boats. Damage amounted to $2 million.

Sept. 7- Hurricane Easy (1951) The fifth hurricane in the season and was
described by literature at the time as the Cedar Keys Hurricane. It
developed over the western Caribbean Sea from a trough of low pressure left
behind by Baker. It formed on September 1 south of the western tip of Cuba,
and drifted northeastward, crossing Cuba on the 3rd as a minimal hurricane.
The next day, it strengthened to a major hurricane while moving
north-northwest, which was followed by a tight loop where Easy reached its
peak of 130 mph winds. Easy again moved to the northeast, approaching the
coast of Florida. It again looped, this time near Cedar Key, Florida. It
slowly moved southeastward through Florida, weakening to a tropical storm on
the 6th. Easy finally moved northwestward through the state, and on the 9th,
it dissipated over extreme eastern Arkansas. It caused $3.3 million dollars
in damage (1950 USD) and 2 deaths. The low damage was due to the sparse
population of the area it hit.

And finally.... culminating in the Grande Finale...

Sept. 8- The Great Galveston Hurricane (1900) Galveston, TX destroyed
completely. Massive loss of life, bodies washed ashore for weeks... they burned the corpses in pyres... it was total inexperience and incompetence on part of the new
government weather agency, NOAA, and Isaac Cline would be the only person
anyone tried to lay the blame on, a couple of months after this, the
Republican president, William McKinley, was re-elected to a second term, and
Democratic challenger, William Jennings Bryan, never even thought about
blaming the president for failing to act.

It's a shame I didn't realize we were celebrating hurricane anniversaries
earlier, I could have thrown a party for Camille on August 17th! At 190 mph
and under 27 mb, it was the most intense hurricane to ever make landfall in
the US.

There are several reasons these hurricanes deserve recognition over Katrina.
In every instance listed, the state and local government dealt with the
responsibility, not the Federal Government. Most of these hurricanes took
place in a time before our country felt compelled to blame the president for
the lack of federal response, it was assumed the state and local officials
would work to evacuate their people and be prepared for these disasters.
Charity has always been huge in America, and people have always given to
those in need, and indeed, our government began disaster relief in the wake
of fires that destroyed cities in 1800's, but the government never has
assumed responsibility for the safety and welfare of persons in a state,
this responsibility has always resided with state and local government, as the
first responders.

The storms listed also have something in common over Katrina... none of them were responded to by presidential issuance of disaster declaration, the day before they made landfall. This happened for the first time in history, under President Bush. With several of the hurricanes listed above, there was no federal assistance at all. Not to be callous, but the Constitution makes no such provision for federal disaster relief, and until recently, it wasn't expected until way after the disaster. Thanks to Jimmy Carter, we can now expect the federal government to take care of us in a hurricane. If it fails to do so, we can blame the president... whoever it is at the time. And if they don't protect us, we can throw annual celebrations of the anniversary, make a big deal out of it, and use it for political advantage. No more, blaming it on the Weather Guy!
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OK.
 
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