Will Trump be charged by Mueller, the charges to ride until Trump leaves office to be

Cypress said:
I am not sure I agree 100 percent, but I know the point you are making.
I believe Gerald Ford made the same calculation in pardoning the noted criminal, Richard Nixon.

In my opinion, having Trump rot in jail doesn't really address the core problem.
Even though Trump got blown out in the popular vote, the world was shocked that America - at least a lot of them - could vote for a clearly dangerously incompetent, arrogant, vile, petulant, uninformed, authoritarian, xenophobe like Donald Trump. That says more about America than it does about Donald Trump. And whatever flaws I think this nation had, I never imagined we would elect a racist, dangerously xenophobic, militaristic swine. I takes America's stature down more than the election of George Dumbya Bush did.

What really should have happened is that America should have overwhelmingly rejected racism, xenophobia, and the reactionary forces of the rightwing at the polls on election day But in a democratic republic, we get another shot to redeem ourselves.

Ideally, Trumpism will be humiliated on the next election, and the one after than in 2020. That would redeem ourselves as Americans, as the purported defenders of liberal democracy. And I think redeeming ourselves is - in some respects - more important than having Trump rot in jail (which will never happen).
The more likely possibility is that , his poll numbers will become so low, and his crimes so obvious, that he would be pressured to resign by Republicans in the way that Tricky Dick was.


To me, it is all about redemption for us as Americans - which to me outweighs the pleasure of seeing Trump frog marched out of the oval office.
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This hate group has to be stopped.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Okay...but I disagree.

Banana republics imprison their ex-presidents..and other contenders for office.

If he is guilty of some crimes...he'd be getting away with serious shit.

I'd just rather HIM get away with that kind of thing...than set a precedent that would be of immeasurable harm.
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We don't need a felon as President.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Please explain that.
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Read my #9, OW. That is my explanation.


I want nothing more than to see this bullying blustering low-class criminal be forced to spend months or years in prison among the class of ppl he's looked down on all his life. If he's convicted of criminal activity, in the famous words of somebody famous -- "Hasta la vista, MFer."
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I understand how you feel.

I just don't think it is worth it. If Trump goes to prison...there will be pressure from American conservatives to put every Democratic Party president from now into prison.

It is an itch NOT worth scratching.
 
Cypress said:
I am not sure I agree 100 percent, but I know the point you are making.
I believe Gerald Ford made the same calculation in pardoning the noted criminal, Richard Nixon.

In my opinion, having Trump rot in jail doesn't really address the core problem.
Even though Trump got blown out in the popular vote, the world was shocked that America - at least a lot of them - could vote for a clearly dangerously incompetent, arrogant, vile, petulant, uninformed, authoritarian, xenophobe like Donald Trump. That says more about America than it does about Donald Trump. And whatever flaws I think this nation had, I never imagined we would elect a racist, dangerously xenophobic, militaristic swine. I takes America's stature down more than the election of George Dumbya Bush did.

What really should have happened is that America should have overwhelmingly rejected racism, xenophobia, and the reactionary forces of the rightwing at the polls on election day But in a democratic republic, we get another shot to redeem ourselves.

Ideally, Trumpism will be humiliated on the next election, and the one after than in 2020. That would redeem ourselves as Americans, as the purported defenders of liberal democracy. And I think redeeming ourselves is - in some respects - more important than having Trump rot in jail (which will never happen).
The more likely possibility is that , his poll numbers will become so low, and his crimes so obvious, that he would be pressured to resign by Republicans in the way that Tricky Dick was.


To me, it is all about redemption for us as Americans - which to me outweighs the pleasure of seeing Trump frog marched out of the oval office.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Thought I would highlight a few comments you made that were especially on the mark.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I just don't think it is worth it. If Trump goes to prison...there will be pressure from American conservatives to put every Democratic Party president from now into prison.
It is an itch NOT worth scratching.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your explanation, but I simply cannot agree. 1) Being lenient on one criminal, particularly one as high-profile as a POTUS, will embolden others. 2) This country already has far too many instances of low-income people -- especially ppl of color -- being sent to prison while well-off (white) ppl skate. 3) It's too late to worry about conservatives trying to jail (D) politicians. They've been trying to do that to the Clintons for decades without success.
 
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Hello Frank,

Frank Apisa said:
You are reading me 5 x 5.

I never want to see a president or ex-president or major party candidate for the presidency sent to prison. If it ever happens, especially in the case of the abomination, Donald Trump...my opinion is that it will mean the end of our republic.
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Why?

This elevates an individual above the law.

I think that's asking for an armed revolution if the only way to remove a tyrant is with force and not through the rule of law.
 
Hello Frank,

Frank Apisa said:
Okay...but I disagree.

Banana republics imprison their ex-presidents..and other contenders for office.

If he is guilty of some crimes...he'd be getting away with serious shit.

I'd just rather HIM get away with that kind of thing...than set a precedent that would be of immeasurable harm.
Click to expand...

What harm would be caused by restoring faith in our system?
 
Hello Cypress,

Cypress said:
I am not sure I agree 100 percent, but I know the point you are making.
I believe Gerald Ford made the same calculation in pardoning the noted criminal, Richard Nixon.

In my opinion, having Trump rot in jail doesn't really address the core problem.
Even though Trump got blown out in the popular vote, the world was shocked that America - at least a lot of them - could vote for a clearly dangerously incompetent, arrogant, vile, petulant, uninformed, authoritarian, xenophobe like Donald Trump. That says more about America than it does about Donald Trump. And whatever flaws I think this nation had, I never imagined we would elect a racist, dangerously xenophobic, militaristic swine. I takes America's stature down more than the election of George Dumbya Bush did.

What really should have happened is that America should have overwhelmingly rejected racism, xenophobia, and the reactionary forces of the rightwing at the polls on election day But in a democratic republic, we get another shot to redeem ourselves.

Ideally, Trumpism will be humiliated on the next election, and the one after than in 2020. That would redeem ourselves as Americans, as the purported defenders of liberal democracy. And I think redeeming ourselves is - in some respects - more important than having Trump rot in jail (which will never happen).
The more likely possibility is that , his poll numbers will become so low, and his crimes so obvious, that he would be pressured to resign by Republicans in the way that Tricky Dick was.


To me, it is all about redemption for us as Americans - which to me outweighs the pleasure of seeing Trump frog marched out of the oval office.
Click to expand...

Nothing would redeem the USA in the eyes of the world more than making Trump answer for his crimes, if indeed they are proven.

That would send the message that the USA is capable of correcting her mistakes, and has the gumption to do it.

Long live the United States!

USA!
USA!
USA!

:usflag:
 
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Cypress said:
I am not sure I agree 100 percent, but I know the point you are making.
I believe Gerald Ford made the same calculation in pardoning the noted criminal, Richard Nixon.

In my opinion, having Trump rot in jail doesn't really address the core problem.
Even though Trump got blown out in the popular vote, the world was shocked that America - at least a lot of them - could vote for a clearly dangerously incompetent, arrogant, vile, petulant, uninformed, authoritarian, xenophobe like Donald Trump. That says more about America than it does about Donald Trump. And whatever flaws I think this nation had, I never imagined we would elect a racist, dangerously xenophobic, militaristic swine. I takes America's stature down more than the election of George Dumbya Bush did.

What really should have happened is that America should have overwhelmingly rejected racism, xenophobia, and the reactionary forces of the rightwing at the polls on election day But in a democratic republic, we get another shot to redeem ourselves.

Ideally, Trumpism will be humiliated on the next election, and the one after than in 2020. That would redeem ourselves as Americans, as the purported defenders of liberal democracy. And I think redeeming ourselves is - in some respects - more important than having Trump rot in jail (which will never happen).
The more likely possibility is that , his poll numbers will become so low, and his crimes so obvious, that he would be pressured to resign by Republicans in the way that Tricky Dick was.


To me, it is all about redemption for us as Americans - which to me outweighs the pleasure of seeing Trump frog marched out of the oval office.
Click to expand...

original-25942-1427414325-9.jpg

Ford once mused he was going to Hell because he pardoned Nixon.

This country should have gone through the pain of all that convicting a criminal POTUS would entail. BIG mistake not to.
 
Hello ThatOwlWoman,

ThatOwlWoman said:
Thanks for your explanation, but I simply cannot agree. 1) Being lenient on one criminal, particularly one as high-profile as a POTUS, will embolden others. 2) This country already has far too many instances of low-income people -- especially ppl of color -- being sent to prison while well-off (white) ppl skate. 3) It's too late to worry about conservatives trying to jail (D) politicians. They've been trying to do that to the Clintons for decades without success.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Cypress,



Nothing would redeem the USA in the eyes of the world more than making Trump answer for his crimes, if indeed they are proven.

That would send the message that the USA is capable of correcting her mistakes, and has the gumption to do it.

Love live the United States!

USA!
USA!
USA!

:usflag:
Click to expand...

It's a really good point.

Actually, the real danger to the Republic is if we get to a point that we simply cannot trust our judicial system to make reasoned judgements based on the rule of law.
 
Letting Nixon and Reagan get away with crimes makes presidents think they are above the law. We could use a bloodletting. Trump is the most crooked thief ever in office. He respects no laws and no values. He is amoral.
 
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