Woman arrested for refusing pat-down

Socrtease said:
Where are all the patriot act defenders? Where are the ones who told us that if we weren't terrorists then it shouldn't matter that the government was listening to our phone calls? If you have nothing to hide then you should not mind the scan or the pat down right? These changes are only to make us safer. Safety is far more important than liberty. I think Franklin said that.
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While I understand your point, this is so far beyond anything the Patriot Act enabled as to pale it to stark white in comparison. These policies, quite literally, give thousands of people, many of whom have minimal educations and little additional training, the absolute authority to violate our constitutional protections, and deliberately interfere with our ability to travel freely, for no better reason than they don't like the way we look at them.
 
As some have pointed out, flying is not per se an enumerated "right".

Using that argument on earthbound modes of transport, do the authorities have the right to pat down passengers before they board a city bus?

After all, you don't have to ride the bus.

What about riding in a taxi?
 
Good Luck said:
And those of us who voted against the assholes that put the current heads of DHS and TSA in place? We deserve the same?

You are aware, aren't you, that the first full body scanners were installed in March of this year, right? You are aware that the policies for use of full body scans, or the option of enhanced pat-downs was written and enacted by the people appointed by the CURRENT administration, right?

You should also be aware that the average person who identifies with the Tea party movement voted against the current administration. Even the most brain dead of liberal idiots know that much.

So, what is you point again? That it's YOUR fault for helping to vote in the assholes who are trading our liberties for (false) security, but you don't give a shit because you don't fly? Is that your message?
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And my bet is you voted for a man who advocated listening in on phone calls and told us so long as we weren't terrarists we'd be ok. My bet is you voted for someone that passed the patriot act without even looking at it or reading it, which is what happened for EVERY person that voted for it. My bet is you voted for republicans that were just as much on the security over freedom train as every lefty that voted for Obama. 9-11 changed everything is the quote of the great american coward. If we were truly the country of freedom 9-11 would not have changed anything. It would have redoubled or efforts at stopping terrarists without sacrificing freedoms. Your outrage at the left is hypocritical when it was just as much the right that took us down the primrose path of intruding on our freedoms.
 
Good Luck said:
You keep bringing that up - in total ignorance of reality (as usual). If you want to discuss constitutional issues, LEARN the fucking Constitution.

Promoting the general welfare at the cost of our other liberties is rather counter productive to promoting our welfare, since liberty is a huge part of the general welfare of our society. The very reason our constitution exists is because the founders recognized the need to protect basic liberties from government encroachment.

YOU may like the idea of perfect safety at the cost of freedom. But then you are, for whatever reason, one of the most mindless, stupid, brain dead, idiotic, without-a-thought-of-your-own democratic party appologists in all existence. MOST of us do NOT want to trade our liberty for your asininely moronic idea of safety.

If you want your perfect safety so fucking much, go commit a major crime and get yourself put in solitary confinement for the rest of your miserable ignorant whining baby life. They can feed you through a slot in the door, exercise you twice a day isolated from anyone else, and you'll be perfectly safe. And then you can take your totalitarian government control ideas, shove them in your useless fucking ASS and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
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I like to see folks express themselves. Very good! However.... what does airport security have to do with liberties? What liberty is being compromised?

Have you ever gone to a YMCA or spa? They ask people to take a shower before entering the pool. If one does not wish to shower they do not enter the pool. Is anyone's liberty being taken away?

No one is obliged to fly just like no one is obliged to drive a car. If one wishes to drive they require a driver's license. Is that taking away ones liberty?

What the hell does liberty have to do with air travel security?

I suggest you learn basic common sense before you attempt to interpret the Constitution. You're way out of your league.
 
Good Luck said:
As was previously pointed out, some people cannot do their jobs without flying. If you are unaware of this basic reality, your are.... - well we already have discovered how completely asininely stupid you can become trying to defend the indefensible.
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And some people require a car for work. Why do they require a driver's license?
 
apple0154 said:
I like to see folks express themselves. Very good! However.... what does airport security have to do with liberties? What liberty is being compromised?

Have you ever gone to a YMCA or spa? They ask people to take a shower before entering the pool. If one does not wish to shower they do not enter the pool. Is anyone's liberty being taken away?

No one is obliged to fly just like no one is obliged to drive a car. If one wishes to drive they require a driver's license. Is that taking away ones liberty?

What the hell does liberty have to do with air travel security?

I suggest you learn basic common sense before you attempt to interpret the Constitution. You're way out of your league.
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Some people believe that the 4th Amendment protections are violated.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyin...tsa-legally-circumvents-the-fourth-amendment/
 
apple0154 said:
I like to see folks express themselves. Very good! However.... what does airport security have to do with liberties? What liberty is being compromised? [\QUOTE]the right to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures.

apple0154 said:
Have you ever gone to a YMCA or spa? They ask people to take a shower before entering the pool. If one does not wish to shower they do not enter the pool. Is anyone's liberty being taken away?
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seriously?

apple0154 said:
No one is obliged to fly just like no one is obliged to drive a car. If one wishes to drive they require a driver's license. Is that taking away ones liberty?
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the right to travel freely. there is a right to drive. there is a right to fly. there is a right to ride public transportation. all without being molested, assaulted, or restricted.

apple0154 said:
I suggest you learn basic common sense before you attempt to interpret the Constitution. You're way out of your league.
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having read the way you interpret the constitution, i'd have to say that you are out of your league.
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Good Luck said:
While I understand your point, this is so far beyond anything the Patriot Act enabled as to pale it to stark white in comparison. These policies, quite literally, give thousands of people, many of whom have minimal educations and little additional training, the absolute authority to violate our constitutional protections, and deliberately interfere with our ability to travel freely, for no better reason than they don't like the way we look at them.
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What absolute nonsense! Travel freely, indeed. Try traveling freely without a license and insurance. You'll get a free ride but it won't be to your chosen destination.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
why must you keep misapplying it?

do i need to list all the court cases that remove all liability and responsibility from the government for it's failure to protect you?
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Do I have to repost the Preamble?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Promote the general welfare. Promote. That does not mean the government has an obligation to provide security personnel to every citizen but it does mean the government has the right/obligation to promote the general welfare and falling from the sky at 30,000 feet can definitely impact a person's welfare. In other words, on the way down, you will not hear anyone say they're having a good day.

Promote: to help or encourage to exist or flourish

To help or encourage. That is one of the purposes of the Constitution as clearly written. The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory statement of the Constitution's fundamental purposes and guiding principles. With what part of that statement are you having a problem?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
are you seriously intimating that the government does have the power to restrict the right to travel?
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The government has the right to place whatever restrictions are necessary on air travel just as it has the right to insist one have a driver's license. Just as it has the right to refuse dangerous goods being transported through certain tunnels. Just as it has the right to close a road if an accident occurs. Just as it has the right to close a bridge if found defective. Just as it has the right to prevent people from walking through/across military bases/property.
 
Good Luck said:
While I understand your point, this is so far beyond anything the Patriot Act enabled as to pale it to stark white in comparison. These policies, quite literally, give thousands of people, many of whom have minimal educations and little additional training, the absolute authority to violate our constitutional protections, and deliberately interfere with our ability to travel freely, for no better reason than they don't like the way we look at them.
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You voted for people that started chipping away at your rights. Too many Americans voted because they were scared. They allowed fear to control their votes and their votes got them here. Listening in on phone calls is JUST as offensive as the enhanced patdowns. They allow the government to intrude where the fourth amendment said they couldn't. This is what so many libertarians including Ron Paul warned of. But no, we were scared and gave up our rights willingly. NOW we're pissed and want them back. Power, once given is not easily gotten back.
 
apple0154 said:
Do I have to repost the Preamble?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Promote the general welfare. Promote. That does not mean the government has an obligation to provide security personnel to every citizen but it does mean the government has the right/obligation to promote the general welfare and falling from the sky at 30,000 feet can definitely impact a person's welfare. In other words, on the way down, you will not hear anyone say they're having a good day.

Promote: to help or encourage to exist or flourish

To help or encourage. That is one of the purposes of the Constitution as clearly written. The Preamble to the United States Constitution is a brief introductory statement of the Constitution's fundamental purposes and guiding principles. With what part of that statement are you having a problem?
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The preamble is nothing but pretty language. It has no legal authority. It does tell us the pupose of the document, but then the articles tell us EXACTLY what they are allowed to do to live up to the preamble. You don't get to pass a law mandating everyone eat brocolli and then claim that it is consistent with promoting the general welfare. The articles are the ONLY things the government gets to do, or at least that was how it used to be.
 
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