Women Need To Carry Guns When Going Out Alone.

[TrippyHippy]

Holsters have their own issues. If the holster is out in the open, it just alerts a potential assailant of where to grab to prevent the gun from being used against him -- and potentially where to get a gun to use against you, if he's strong enough to overpower you. If, on the other hand, it's a concealed holster, then you have effectively the same issue as with a purse, where it's not necessarily going to be easily accessible in the heat of the moment. For example, if you have something in the small of the back, and some guy pins you, that gun isn't going to help you at all, and could, in fact, put you at greater risk (if he manages to get his hands on it).

Have you ever actually used a gun holster? You seem to be implying it's troublesome and clumsy to take a gun out of it's holster, but in reality most halfway decent holsters (for concealed carry or otherwise) are made with that specific problem in mind. With little practice, you could have your gun out and a bullet in your assailant in no time at all. That's what they were made for. The secure transport of your firearm as well as the ability to quickly remove it in a bad situation. The rare chance of some kind of accident, which *is* rare if you have any semblance of gun and physical self defense training, is probably largely preferable to being a sitting duck waiting to get raped. It gives you a fighting chance, at least.

 

[Oneuli]

Have you ever actually used a gun holster?

Yes.

You seem to be implying it's troublesome and clumsy to take a gun out of it's holster

If you think that's what I seem to be implying, then please reread.

you could have your gun out and a bullet in your assailant in no time at all

To be more specific, in precisely the same amount of time it would take for him to have it out and have a bullet in you.

The rare chance of some kind of accident, which *is* rare if you have any semblance of gun and physical self defense training

Accidents are not rare. There are about 70,000 injuries by firearm per year, a sizable portion of which are accidental shootings. Even just counting the ones that leave someone dead, we are talking hundreds every year. And these include people with a high degree of gun and physical self defense training, including a number of famous examples of firearms instructors, police, and military personnel being responsible for accidental shootings.

is probably largely preferable to being a sitting duck waiting to get raped

I'm open to an evidence-based argument to that effect, but what I've seen so far are just assertion-based arguments (basically, you're better off if you have a gun because I say you're better off if you have a gun.) An evidence-based argument would be based around statistical trends -- for example, something showing that in otherwise similar areas, those with higher gun ownership tend to have less rape. Or something showing that in places that start out with similar crime numbers, if one moves towards liberalizing gun carry laws and the other doesn't, the one moving that way will tend to end up with better crime numbers. I've nosed around through published studies and it looks like the opposite is true.

 

[philly rabbit]

Could you explain in what way your post was response to what I said in that post?

You don't want women to defend themselves with a firearm.

You don't want middle class people to have guns.

Okay?

 

[Oneuli]

You don't want women to defend themselves with a firearm.

You don't want middle class people to have guns.

Okay?

I haven't said a word against women defending themselves with firearms, nor against middle class people having guns. I've simply pointed out that the best evidence suggests that guns could actually make you less safe.

 

[sear]

" I've simply pointed out that the best evidence suggests that guns could actually make you less safe. " O #204

Over the decades the reports of studies I've read on that corroborate your assertion.

 

[philly rabbit]

I haven't said a word against women defending themselves with firearms, nor against middle class people having guns. I've simply pointed out that the best evidence suggests that guns could actually make you less safe.

Would Mollie have had a better chance to survive with a gun?

 

[philly rabbit]

you'd get shot within 10 minutes

What are you talking about?

 

[philly rabbit]

Over the decades the reports of studies I've read on that corroborate your assertion.

It depends who you're talking to. The people who want to take guns away from the working classes will always offer evidence that guns are a danger and make you less safe.

The people who support the second amendment don't make assertions based on studies but use common sense over an armed citizen vs. an unarmed citizen who is assaulted.

 

[Oneuli]

Would Mollie have had a better chance to survive with a gun?

That depends on which Mollie you mean. But remember the question isn't ultimately one for anecdotes, but rather specifics. If there are ten instances when a person wouldn't have died if she'd had a gun, and twenty where she wouldn't have died if she didn't have a gun, then you're less safe with a gun, notwithstanding the existence of genuine counterexamples.

 

[Oneuli]

It depends who you're talking to. The people who want to take guns away from the working classes will always offer evidence that guns are a danger and make you less safe.

If you have an argument against the evidence, you should offer it.

The people who support the second amendment don't make assertions based on studies but use common sense over an armed citizen vs. an unarmed citizen who is assaulted.

Common sense says we should go with the best available evidence. I think what you're talking about isn't common sense, but rather "gut reaction." Gut reactions aren't always a very good guide.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

The rare chance of some kind of accident, which *is* rare if you have any semblance of gun and physical self defense training, is probably largely preferable to being a sitting duck waiting to get raped. It gives you a fighting chance, at least.

We women would be much better off taking self-defense courses, and attending refreshers, than carrying guns. Almost all attackers approach from the rear. It is unlikely that you would have time to get a firearm out when grabbed from behind. However, if you have self-defense training and can break the hold the attacker has on you, and run, chances are you will get away.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I haven't said a word against women defending themselves with firearms, nor against middle class people having guns. I've simply pointed out that the best evidence suggests that guns could actually make you less safe.

and yet we allow, practically demand, that government allow cops all over the nation to carry guns, making them less safe..............why is that?

 

[Fentoine Lum]

and yet we allow, practically demand, that government allow cops all over the nation to carry guns, making them less safe..............why is that?

So they can shoot black folk for us.

 

[Oneuli]

and yet we allow, practically demand, that government allow cops all over the nation to carry guns, making them less safe..............why is that?

What make you think it makes the police less safe?

 

[sear]

Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
I haven't said a word against women defending themselves with firearms, nor against middle class people having guns. I've simply pointed out that the best evidence suggests that guns could actually make you less safe.

"and yet we allow, practically demand, that government allow cops all over the nation to carry guns, making them less safe..............why is that?" SY #212

Thank you for the insightful question SY.
There are numerous reasons. I can't name them all, but I'll cite a few bullet points:

- In overlapping bell-curves, women tend to be shorter, lighter, and have less upper-body strength than men.

- Attackers often have the advantage of surprise, as TW #211 explained.

- Women are often further disadvantaged by culture. Combat boots don't have stiletto heels. Capisce? When was the most recent time you saw an evening dress with cargo pockets?

- Police generally have months of training, and often years of on the job police experience. Most women are in this matter, self-defense novices.

There's more. But that's enough to answer your question.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

What make you think it makes the police less safe?

YOU said statistics show that carrying a gun makes one less safe.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

- In overlapping bell-curves, women tend to be shorter, lighter, and have less upper-body strength than men.

which should only serve to bolster that they carry a gun for equalization

- Attackers often have the advantage of surprise, as TW #211 explained.

don't they always, but situational awareness training can mitigate most of those.

- Women are often further disadvantaged by culture. Combat boots don't have stiletto heels. Capisce? When was the most recent time you saw an evening dress with cargo pockets?

so we should start prohibiting women from carrying guns because of the way they dress? do you blame rape victims also?

- Police generally have months of training, and often years of on the job police experience. Most women are in this matter, self-defense novices.

the police training regimen is severely overblown and very few cops actually use their weapons on the job, or at least statistics show that to be the case. self defense classes and private handgun combat training can also be achieved.

 

[sear]

"which should only serve to bolster that they carry a gun for equalization" SY #217

... might be the opinion not schooled in military strategy or martial arts.
The fact you overlook is that in that circumstance, when the gun is taken away from her, her plan-A is also taken from her. AND !! She has thus empowered her criminal adversary BY GIVING HIM A GUN !!

"don't they always, but situational awareness training can mitigate most of those." SY

Amen. And water is wet.
But "situational awareness training" is not a prerequisite to concealed carry license issue.

Know it or not,
believe it or not,
like it or not,
admit it or not;
you're practicing "magical thinking".

In your imaginary hypothetical, the unarmed woman has no martial arts training, but the armed woman has "situational awareness" (which can take years or decades to develop and maintain).

But if I am in the audience when your APPLES & ORANGES award is presented to you, I will join the throng with applause.

"so we should start prohibiting women from carrying guns because of the way they dress?" SY #217

You have insinuated a false dichotomy.
It is NOT a question of either arming all women with guns,
or prohibiting all women from having guns.

It is not a binary sir or m'am. It is, if you will graciously pardon the unintended pun, a broad spectrum.

"the police training regimen is severely overblown ..." SY

Don't waste your time.
Been there.
Done that.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

... might be the opinion not schooled in military strategy or martial arts.
The fact you overlook is that in that circumstance, when the gun is taken away from her, her plan-A is also taken from her. AND !! She has thus empowered her criminal adversary BY GIVING HIM A GUN !!

anyone can have a gun taken from them.......even cops and it's happened in the past, so i'm not sure what you intended to accomplish by that. Also, i'm a marine, well trained in military strategy as well as martial arts.

In your imaginary hypothetical, the unarmed woman has no martial arts training, but the armed woman has "situational awareness" (which can take years or decades to develop and maintain).

I'm 100% positive I never made that comment.

Don't waste your time.
Been there.
Done that.

so you continually spout the same bullshit? why?

 

[Oneuli]

YOU said statistics show that carrying a gun makes one less safe.

What makes you think it makes the police less safe? Obviously, what's true for a population overall need not be true for a subset of a population. For example, injecting adrenaline into the bloodstream may generally make it more likely you'll die (thanks to an elevated heart rate), but it also makes it less likely that someone suffering from anaphylaxis will die (epinephrine, in epi-pens, is just another word for adrenaline). Police are a very different case than most people.