Words to ponder

[ADreamOfLiberty]

Now, that doesn't answer the people who say it's still completely unfair to not have looked at the laptop in a timely way and to have shut down the New York Post's Twitter account, that's a left-wing conspiracy to deny the presidency to Donald Trump - absolutely it was, absolutely. But I think it was warranted

Religion isn't the only way for large groups of people to be lunatics.

 

[Litmus]

Religion isn't the only way for large groups of people to be lunatics.

there's an argument that explicitly atheist regimes are the most maniacal.

 

[serenity]

what is missing in this idea from Thomas Jefferson? Government is time management of people evolving at the same time for generations of people never same population again any generation gap forward daily.

 

[Daylight63]

Religion isn't the only way for large groups of people to be lunatics.

Correct. Humans are primed to be lunatics in large groups it seems. Religion, politics, social groups, it doesn't matter. We'll take ANY concept and fight each other over it.

It just seems that religion should bring people together. Instead it just becomes another dividing line. But, again, it's evidence of the hand of man in creating religion. We do the same thing with everything we create.

 

[serenity]

Correct. Humans are primed to be lunatics in large groups it seems. Religion, politics, social groups, it doesn't matter. We'll take ANY concept and fight each other over it.

It just seems that religion should bring people together. Instead it just becomes another dividing line. But, again, it's evidence of the hand of man in creating religion. We do the same thing with everything we create.

You left out economic groups sharing the same currency nationally, continental, globally.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Can you post a link to the text of the book?

Tocqueville's Critique of Socialism (1848) | Online Library of Liberty

Related Links: Alexis de Tocqueville Topic: Classical Liberal Critique of Socialism Source: New Individualist Review, editor-in-chief Ralph Raico, introduction by Milton Friedman (Indianapolis: Liberty Fund, 1981). Chapter: Tocqueville on Socialism Copyright: The copyright to this publication is...

oll.libertyfund.org

It's about halfway down in the discussion.

Or you can wade through the 404 pages of the published version here:

Tocqueville's Speech Against Socialism [ Sept. 12, 1848] : Tocqueville : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Tocqueville's Speech Against Socialism [Sept.12, 1848]

archive.org

 

[Cypress]

You also like to harass women online, I've heard.

Still lying your flabby ass off Watermark?

Actually, real actual women on this board have openly accused you of being a creepy stalker:


"WARNING: This person ('The Trump Administration') is a scammer and a stalker. Remember be careful who you help and trust on here."

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/t...thatowlwoman-is.133700/page-4325#post-6226333

 

[Cypress]

Tocqueville's Critique of Socialism (1848) | Online Library of Liberty

Related Links: Alexis de Tocqueville Topic: Classical Liberal Critique of Socialism Source: New Individualist Review, editor-in-chief Ralph Raico, introduction by Milton Friedman (Indianapolis: Liberty Fund, 1981). Chapter: Tocqueville on Socialism Copyright: The copyright to this publication is...

oll.libertyfund.org

It's about halfway down in the discussion.

Or you can wade through the 404 pages of the published version here:

Tocqueville's Speech Against Socialism [ Sept. 12, 1848] : Tocqueville : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Tocqueville's Speech Against Socialism [Sept.12, 1848]

archive.org

Thanks. He was writing in the wake of the French Revolution, which went off the rails, and before 20th century European social democracy.

Totalitarian socialism has always been a failure.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Thanks. He was writing in the wake of the French Revolution, which went off the rails, and before 20th century European social democracy.

Totalitarian socialism has always been a failure.

But in the larger picture since, he was fundamentally correct. Socialism requires confiscation and servitude in any form. It's simply that more socialism ups the amount.

I would add that socialism is also opposed to human nature. It requires altruism on the part of those in a society practicing it. While a small amount doesn't generally both individuals, just as charitable giving doesn't, heavy handed confiscation and wealth redistribution do. Few are willing to work hard, produce much, and then simply give it away to others who may be simply sitting on their hands doing nothing.

 

[Daylight63]

But in the larger picture since, he was fundamentally correct. Socialism requires confiscation and servitude in any form. It's simply that more socialism ups the amount.

I would add that socialism is also opposed to human nature. It requires altruism on the part of those in a society practicing it. While a small amount doesn't generally both individuals, just as charitable giving doesn't, heavy handed confiscation and wealth redistribution do. Few are willing to work hard, produce much, and then simply give it away to others who may be simply sitting on their hands doing nothing.

Couple points:

1. You enjoy "socialism" every single day. It's why we have a free interstate highway system, it's why you have medicare, it's why you have clean water etc. You don't like to think of them as socialism but they are.

2. There aren't as many "leaches" as you guys on the Right want to claim there is.

3. The number of leaches on society must also include all the Red States that take more in government funds than they pay in.


We all enjoy a certain level of "socialism". That's why our society has at least SOME value as a society.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Couple points:

1. You enjoy "socialism" every single day. It's why we have a free interstate highway system, it's why you have medicare, it's why you have clean water etc. You don't like to think of them as socialism but they are.

That's my point. Some socialism is good for any society. Lots of socialism is bad. When it gets bad is where it isn't done for the good of all, but rather for reasons of "Equality." I can deal with less than pristine water. Medicare isn't a necessity, it's a luxury provided our society. Everyone pays, but only some get the benefit of it. The interstate highway system was a defense project that had civilian applications that benefit everyone.

2. There aren't as many "leaches" as you guys on the Right want to claim there is.

There are plenty of leaches in a socialist society. It isn't just those on welfare. Corporate welfare, the lazy, scammers, and lots of others to boot.

3. The number of leaches on society must also include all the Red States that take more in government funds than they pay in.

This old canard again? Until you remove government funding that is done because of location or specialization, and only account for social-welfare spending, it is inaccurate. It is large blue states that gobble up the lion's share of social welfare spending.

We all enjoy a certain level of "socialism". That's why our society has at least SOME value as a society.

Yes, some socialism have value where it benefits everyone as a public good. Where socialism fails is when it starts choosing winners and losers. Wealth redistribution and programs that favor a few but take from the many are not usually beneficial to society.

 

[Daylight63]

That's my point. Some socialism is good for any society. Lots of socialism is bad.

And you are the arbiter of how much is bad.

There are plenty of leaches in a socialist society.

No there aren't. Unlike you I've actually worked with people in social democracies like Europe. I've been in their factories, I've worked beside them, I've hung out with them. They are no more likely to be leaches than you are.

You aren't a leach are you?

It isn't just those on welfare. Corporate welfare, the lazy, scammers, and lots of others to boot.

Corporate welfare. What a joke. Your guy, Trump, took advantage of that 6 times when he fucked over his own businesses by being incompetent. Left a lot of creditors holding the bag.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

And you are the arbiter of how much is bad.

Generally speaking, socialism becomes 'bad' when it is for the benefit of some individuals rather than for the general good of society as a whole.

No there aren't. Unlike you I've actually worked with people in social democracies like Europe. I've been in their factories, I've worked beside them, I've hung out with them. They are no more likely to be leaches than you are.

Anecdote isn't evidence.

You aren't a leach are you?

No.

Corporate welfare. What a joke. Your guy, Trump, took advantage of that 6 times when he fucked over his own businesses by being incompetent. Left a lot of creditors holding the bag.

Corporate welfare is across the board. The Democrats and Left just favor different corporations than Republicans and the Right, that's all.

 

[IBDaMann]

Same with Fascism and Naziism. Hope you chose the right "ism".

Naziism is fascism. What is your point specifically?

 

[Litmus]

Correct. Humans are primed to be lunatics in large groups it seems. Religion, politics, social groups, it doesn't matter. We'll take ANY concept and fight each other over it.

It just seems that religion should bring people together. Instead it just becomes another dividing line. But, again, it's evidence of the hand of man in creating religion. We do the same thing with everything we create.

and we're also capable of great peaceful cultures.

here you masons are, inculcating all this bullshit about the inevitability of violence.

its bullshit.

it's just your business model and you commit great evils protecting it.

now fuck off.

the adults are in charge now.

 

[Litmus]

Correct. Humans are primed to be lunatics in large groups it seems. Religion, politics, social groups, it doesn't matter. We'll take ANY concept and fight each other over it.

It just seems that religion should bring people together. Instead it just becomes another dividing line. But, again, it's evidence of the hand of man in creating religion. We do the same thing with everything we create.

yeah,

the only thing worse is an explicitly atheist society......

doy.

 

[RB 60]

and we're also capable of great peaceful cultures.

here you masons are, inculcating all this bullshit about the inevitability of violence.

its bullshit.

it's just your business model and you commit great evils protecting it.

now fuck off.

the adults are in charge now.

Masons? A further explanation is requested...

 

[Diogenes]

Actually, real actual women on this board have openly accused you of being a creepy stalker:

Actually, "women" is plural.

NBH is one person.

NBH made an accusation without evidence, and Damocles dismissed it publicly.

You have no idea if NBH is really a woman, or not.

Y O U, on the other hand, have had a long-standing reputation as a sex pest. Do you deny it?

 

[Litmus]

Masons? A further explanation is requested...

masons the brotherhood.

of course there are good masons but their organization has long been infilrated and perverted with unconditional internationalist fascist memes.

 

[RB 60]

masons the brotherhood.

of course there are good masons but their organization has long been infilrated and perverted with unconditional internationalist fascist memes.

None here have. In fact, ours are having a free Thanksgiving meal and the public is invited.