WRL and Dixie Logic

"Now Bush is attempting [whine] to look like [moan] he is using that strategy, but only doing it half-assed [bitch] and very late in the game. [complain] 20,000 new troops...[whine]" --Damo

In between the whining, moaning, bitching, and complaining, you state that Bush is doing precisely what you suggested. I don't get what Bush did to you people, I really don't, I could understand the animosity if he had personally insulted your mother or took a whiz in your corn flakes, but the man does exactly what you think he should do, and you still find ways to articulate your hate and revile for him, I don't get that.
I might point out that he only half-assed what I think is necessary. But I really am not "moaning" or complaining. As I said, it appears that even he thinks its a good idea, he just waited until the preparedness level of our forces were too low to fully implement it. Pointing out the mistakes made by us only helps in preventing future mistakes.

"Moaning" is whining and doing nothing to change things, as you pointed out earlier. So far all we are getting is your "moaning" about others pointing out perceived mistakes.

I don't "hate and revile" Bush. That's preposterous. I dislike what he has done to the party. I dislike that people call that guy "conservative" when he is rarely conservative. But "hate and revile"? I want the effort to work. It is the only way that we can have a possibility of voting for somebody sane.

Methinks you are objecting too loudly and getting all worked up. I am a republican, I agree more often than not with things you agree with. We just disagree on this one.
 
I gave you many times a specific strategy to get us out of there quickly without "cutting and running".

Oh, I can give a strategy to get us out quickly without cutting and running as well, but then we would have to worry with the radioactive oil hole in the desert over there, so every strategy has consequence. The fact that you gave a strategy on a message board, and the administration didn't follow your advice, is no reason to abandon logic and common sense. It doesn't justify abandoning what we set out to do, which was to overthrow the regime and replace it with a functional democratic government.

You act like a spoiled 10-year-old cry baby, since they didn't do things your way, you are going to get mad and pitch a fit now. ?

not at all...YOU were the one who claimed that no one on the left had ever offered alternatives other than cutting and running. I simply pointed out that you were a LIAR when you said that. I have no allusions that you, or anyone in this meatheaded administration will ever do ANYTHING that makes any sense in Iraq, regardless of who offers the advice... or what the voters tell them at the polls. I know that the only way out of Iraq is to wait until a democrat is elected to the white house in '08 and then bring the boys home and start fighting the war against the folks who attacked us.
 
I realize what I said a year ago, and you will note, we don't hear of 142 soldiers dying in 10-12 car bombings a week anymore, we hear of 1 soldier or 2, in a couple of attacks. These roadside bombs have diminished considerably since Zarqawi's exit from the stage, but you haven't noticed because you haven't had time, you are too busy ferreting out propaganda to run post on a message board, to keep your lies going.

what a liar you are.

our casualty rate has been increasing since Zarqawi was killed.

how do you sleep at night with the blood of those young american men and women you so blythely ignore soaking through your pajamas?
 
Having great hindsight is not a sign of great leadership. You make great hindsight arguments for why we shouldn't be in Iraq, why it was a bad idea, why we should have done something else, but these are made in hindsight, and anyone is capable of doing that. Leaders don't have the luxury of hindsight, they have to lead the way with no hindsight to guide them because it doesn't exist yet.

Lets take a look at Hagel's hindisight ... now remember..Hagel is a US Senator he is not the President; "There were two reasons I did it," Chuck Hagel explains. "I believed what the administration said, that war would be a last resort, and the second thing is, at a critical time like this, the president needs a strong hand, and to some extent, you've got to trust him, until he lies or screws up or something. Is there a gamble in that? Sure. But there was a gamble in sending Hagel to the Senate."

Simply put.. he supported the President and trusted his word. What more would you expect from a Legislator of the "alleged" same political ideology? As time moves on.. and the purpose of the War changes face after every failure or questionable move.. a responsible Legislator will ask questions and if necessary speak out at what or she perceives as taking the wrong road or making bad decisions.. thats part of a Legislators job ..to be a watch dog for "We the People".
I look at Hagel as just the opposite as you.. I believe his standing up at the podium and speaking out against Partisan Conventional Wisdom is a sign of great leadership. If in your heart you see an unjust War... that is unnecessarily taking the lives of our Young Men and Women .., as a Legislator.. it is your responsibility to speak up, Hagel did that..

Now my take. As an American Citizen I have the luxury to go one step further, I can tell you how I really feel about this War.. how obvious it is to me as to the true intent of why we are there..and it has nothing to do with with the first misleading reason..WMD's; nothing to do with the second reason..fighting terrorism; or nothing to do with the next reason.. "Liberating the people of Iraq" ...
It has everything to do with strategically gaining presence and control in the heart of an Oil Rich Region... and handing out huge contracts to the Oligarchic Comrades of this Administration. Our young men and Women are fighting an Immoral War driven by power and greed.

How do we get out? What is my plan? I dont have a military mind and Im not going to pretend I do.. but I am comfortable with the thought that there are many qualified individuals with the mental capacity to figure a way out.. we first must have the conviction to do it.. it is so obvious at this point in time..the present administration does not have a plan.
 


Forgive me Dix, but I can't find that silver lining you keep promising.

Hummm.. let me scan my memory???? Don't seem to recall ever promising a silver lining. In fact, don't recall ever making YOU any promise!




This is telling. The difference between you and somebody sane, is that the sane people agree that there is no silver lining, and thus we should seek a rational end to this thing. The insane realize there is no silver lining and continue to dump gas on the fire, blood on Iraq.

The Iraqi people will only have a your fantasy democracy organically, not at the behest of western christian powers.

Pull your head out of the gaddamned sand for once in your life.
 
This is telling. The difference between you and somebody sane, is that the sane people agree that there is no silver lining, and thus we should seek a rational end to this thing. The insane realize there is no silver lining and continue to dump gas on the fire, blood on Iraq.

No, the insane want to squander the blood and money already spent and smear the president, as they have for the past 7 years, while they run around with their hair on fire, and pretend we are in 1968. The only "rational" end to this thing, is us winning and coming home victorious, otherwise the enemy wins and the people of Iraq lose big time. Most rational and sane people realize this, which is why we haven't already cut and run in Iraq.

What is telling is, you categorize the sending of reinforcements as "dumping gas on the fire" in Iraq. Who's fucking side are you on, anyway? Have you EVER fought for anything? Do you even have a concept of what fighting is about? What would you do if I popped you in your big stupid nose, run away? Because anything you would do to retaliate, would just be 'pouring gas on the fire', wouldn't it? That is essentially your position, and it is one of complete cowardice.

You need a reason to get pissed off and want to fight this war? How about those Marines they strung up on the bridge? You want us to just turn tail and run from the people who did that? Of course you do! You don't give a flying fuck about anything but yourself, and your dead-in-the-water libertarianism!

None of you give a damn about being reasonable, about being objective and finding solutions to the problems, you just want to keep on heaping scorn and criticisms on Bush, and insisting we pretent Iraq is Vietnam and bring our yellow asses home right now! Every idea, every suggestion, is predicated on some unfounded fear and uncertainty you have about America's ability to finish the job in Iraq. The president sends in reinforcements, and you can't wait until their damn boots hit the sand in Iraq before you are here telling us how it isn't going to work, it's pointless, we should just give up! You've kept up this inceasant rant until you've managed to somehow convince people like Damo and klaatu, that your idiotic and disasterous approach is a good idea!

You and your buddy doves on the left have railroaded this war, like you railroaded Vietnam, by using the media and this constant drumbeat of negativity, to errode any support for the war. You have managed to ostracize anyone who dare put a fucking magnet on their mini-van or fly a flag! We have been called every name in the book, and constantly attacked, to the point that some people are now ashamed to even admit they ever supported the war, or voted for Bush. I've never seen anything like it in my life, a bunch of television-addicted pill-popping gen-x sheep have followed you to the edge of the cliff and are prepared to jump with you on this!

Maybe you are too caught up in your own little bubble world, and just can't comprehend what is happening, and what is going to happen in Iraq if we don't prevail. Maybe you, like Hamilton, Baker, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Blair, McCain, Lieberman, Malaki and almost everyone who has any sense, know precisely what is going to happen in Iraq if we don't prevail, and it ain't pretty? Maybe you don't give two massive beefy shits? Who the fuck knows?

The bottom line is this... We are IN Iraq now. We are doing a job there, NOW! We can leave, abandon the job, and allow nuts to take over the place and ruin everything we've built so far, and waste all the money we have spent so far, and completely forsake the objectives of people who are no longer here to have a say in it, because they already gave their lives for it.

That is what you want to do, and it looks like you have just about convinced enough people to go along with it. I blamed the failure in Vietnam on Johnson, but I'll blame the failure of Iraq on you. Bush is doing what he is supposed to do, he has sent more troops, and is trying to prevail in some sense of victory here, and it CAN most certainly be done, it's not out of the question at all, in fact, there have been numerous positive developments in Iraq, you just haven't acknowledged any of them. And you don't ever plan to! I get it, more than you think!
 
Here we go again.. "Cut and Run" "Win the War" "Tail between our legs" .. Sorry Dix...this is spoon fed straight from 1600 Penn Ave right smack into your lips.

Most intelligent plans do not having us withdrawing overnight.., most intelligent plans have us gradually withdrawing and redeploying in the outer allied regions and moving over to where the "REAL" war on terror is and should have been taking place all along..that being Afghanistan.

Lets examine your words Dix.. or should I say GW's and Dick Cheney's words.. ; "WIN THE WAR" ... what exactly does this mean? What is the intent? To fully Democratize the Nation? Implement an Arab America? How is this to be accomplished with 3 Theocracies fundamentally opposed to one another? Many Scholars from the right and most from the left agree that this is absurd.
"Win the War" has no meaning..its shallow.

The familiar chants of "Who side are you on?" "Betrayal of the troops" ... this doesnt work any longer. Im on the side of the troops ..I want to free them of the burden of fighting a War which I think has been fought on the basis of Misleading Information and False Truths. My concern is when they come home they are given the best care money can buy...and along with being handsomely rewarded for their tour of duty. In Disgusting fashion ..this is not being demonstrated by the policies of this administration... Now Dixie... do you still want to chant the words "Support the troops" or if one supports withdraw..we are "Betraying the troops"?
 
..I want to free them of the burden of fighting a War which I think has been fought on the basis of...

Get this through your increasingly pointy head... it doesn't fucking matter what YOU think! They don't want to be "freed" from anything, except the increasingly negative scrutiny, criticism, condemnation and general pressure you and your liberal bedmates are hurling at them daily! They are re-enlisting in record numbers, and signing up in record numbers, no one has been forced to go to Iraq against their will, so they do not require you and Cyndi Sheehan to "free" them!

Many of them lost buddies to cowardly scum buckets who couldn't face them man to man on the field of battle, and had to use some chicken shit means to kill them! You are asking them to forget about it and walk away, like it doesn't matter, all because YOU don't "like it" anymore! Fuck you! They can't tell you and Chucky that, but I CAN!
 
Ahh Grenada, Iran Contra, Nicaragua......
Sort of cowby diplomacy there too, but yes much better than the Bush Admin and the neos.


And much better than Clinton ...

Grenada? The 12 hour rescue mission? What the hell is wrong with you? Regardless of the Military build-up, and so we trained and financed the Contras.. oooh what a War..... We were never in a more Peace time environment than under the years of Ronald Reagan... you can't argue this one USC.
 
..I want to free them of the burden of fighting a War which I think has been fought on the basis of...

Get this through your increasingly pointy head... it doesn't fucking matter what YOU think! They don't want to be "freed" from anything, except the increasingly negative scrutiny, criticism, condemnation and general pressure you and your liberal bedmates are hurling at them daily! They are re-enlisting in record numbers, and signing up in record numbers, no one has been forced to go to Iraq against their will, so they do not require you and Cyndi Sheehan to "free" them!

Many of them lost buddies to cowardly scum buckets who couldn't face them man to man on the field of battle, and had to use some chicken shit means to kill them! You are asking them to forget about it and walk away, like it doesn't matter, all because YOU don't "like it" anymore! Fuck you! They can't tell you and Chucky that, but I CAN!


Record Numbers? Whew! Enlistment has been steadily going down since 2003... why do you think Bush is now sending wounded soldiers back to the middle east? What fucking planet are you living on?
 
"If the sky is green, then the water must be blue...
The sky is green, therefore the water is blue"
...this is a VALID argument.."
AC 'schools' me on logic and reveals the color of the sky in his world!

Dixie, given your lack of knowledge of logic (never heard of a syllogism, let alone capable of using one), and the fact that AC's example is of a valid argument, this signature is a little daft...
 
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