Yes, we did

cawacko said:
Ok, since you two have such a freaking hard on.

Look at the economys of any other countries that offer universal healthcare. Do any of them match our economy? And you two really believe they don't have rationing and economic issues providing healthcare? And why do WEALTHY people from around the world come to the U.S. to receive the best service possible of other countries healthcare are equal or better than ours?
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fixed that for you
 
Damocles said:
The postal service runs huge deficits and has a bad business model, it's not a very good example, and you'd have to stretch to say that the regular highway is better than the toll road in Denver that was built, and is run, by a private company. Most power is provided by private companies under the control of the PUCs in each state, these companies have largely invested in their own equipment and most do not tap into hydroelectric power. The most elite schools, even down to preschool, are private schools. Most of your examples are not very good.

National defense. That's one that the government should run, it's even in the constitution. Can you show me a private army so that we can compare if it is more efficiently run?
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I fail to see the relevence of your comment. Constitutionality aside, the point is, government runs the military more affectively then any private sector organization can and we can also say the same thing about our public infrastructure and our public education.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Fine. Maybe it's not profitable now. What about the over 200 years in which it was? What about the other examples? Your just plain and simply wrong Wacko. There are many things our government and our government workers do very well indeed.

That's my problem with those with this kind of libertarian bent. Government failure is a self fullfilling prophecy to ya'll How can you trust people to run government who have the expectation that government is a bad thing and should fail. That's why no reasonable or responsible person takes libertarians seriously. Who would trust them at the helm of government? I sure as hell wouldn't.
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:palm:

government is the only entity that profits from it's failure.
you trust small government people to run it because we know that the government that governs best, governs least. I'm sure a founding father or two said that at some point, right?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Fine. Maybe it's not profitable now. What about the over 200 years in which it was? What about the other examples? Your just plain and simply wrong Wacko. There are many things our government and our government workers do very well indeed.

That's my problem with those with this kind of libertarian bent. Government failure is a self fullfilling prophecy to ya'll How can you trust people to run government who have the expectation that government is a bad thing and should fail. That's why no reasonable or responsible person takes libertarians seriously. Who would trust them at the helm of government? I sure as hell wouldn't.
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Seriously what does the government do well? And you can find numerous examples of corrupt and inefficient government with no libertarians and republicans in sight. For example look at a lot of the major cities around the country. In my back yard I offer you Oakland which maybe rivals Detroit in how poorly it is run. All people in power are Democrats, the people who like and support big government.
 
usaloyal2theend said:
The Postal Service? Are you kiddin' me?????

They're on the verge of frickin' bankruptcy. I went in to mail a package and was told by the postal agent because they are so in the red, they can no longer provide 9 inches of packing tape.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!! I cannot believe you cited the god damn postal service!
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How long has the US Postal service been around? How long did it operate at a profit before modern companies and the internet eroded it's customer base away? How about 200 years? You're arguing from a false premis. The US Postal Service isn't losing money because it's ran inefficiently by the Government but because it's customer base has eroded away. Be that as it may, the private sector has still failed to provide an option that can efficiently deliver mail as the USPS does. They can compete with parcels and priority services but not your every day garden variety mail.

Again, I stress my point. This sort of libertarian "Goverment can't do nothing right" ideology is a self fullfilling prophecy for failed government and those who embrace this ideology are not to be trusted at the helm of government.

If they do it should come as no surprize when they fail. It's what their promising to do!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I fail to see the relevence of your comment. Constitutionality aside, the point is, government runs the military more affectively then any private sector organization can and we can also say the same thing about our public infrastructure and our public education.
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which is why the Dallas ISD is facing a 64 million dollar budget deficit. :good4u:
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I fail to see the relevence of your comment. Constitutionality aside, the point is, government runs the military more affectively then any private sector organization can and we can also say the same thing about our public infrastructure and our public education.
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The government has a monopoly on public education. There has never been a real opportunity for the free market to compete. And I don't think it's too hard to find many people not happy with the state of education in this country.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Fine. Maybe it's not profitable now. What about the over 200 years in which it was? What about the other examples? Your just plain and simply wrong Wacko. There are many things our government and our government workers do very well indeed.

That's my problem with those with this kind of libertarian bent. Government failure is a self fullfilling prophecy to ya'll How can you trust people to run government who have the expectation that government is a bad thing and should fail. That's why no reasonable or responsible person takes libertarians seriously. Who would trust them at the helm of government? I sure as hell wouldn't.
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Your continuing to use this line over and over again doesn't make it true or logical. What about the people who adore government that make it run inefficiently and ineffectively? By your odd logic, their belief in government should be enough to do the job right. People who distrust government are simply operating under the system of principles this country was founded upon, and generally believe in efficiency as a virtue to be achieved one way or another.
 
cawacko said:
Seriously what does the government do well? And you can find numerous examples of corrupt and inefficient government with no libertarians and republicans in sight. For example look at a lot of the major cities around the country. In my back yard I offer you Oakland which maybe rivals Detroit in how poorly it is run. All people in power are Democrats, the people who like and support big government.
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I just pointed out to you that it does many things well. Does it do everything well? No it doesn't. But sound governance is god damned important and our people in government probably provide government services better then anywhere else in the world as a whole and we should be damned proud of that and not let a small group of ideologues who hate government destroy it.

It's like I keep saying. Scratch a libertarian and you have an anarchist.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
No, what is bullshit is disloyal trying to claim the post office wouldn't let her use more than 9 inches of tape.
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oh... my fault then... I didn't realize the TAPE was the issue. I am sure we can now get to proving how much tape they gave her. thanks for clearing that up.
 
usaloyal2theend said:
The Postal Service? Are you kiddin' me?????

They're on the verge of frickin' bankruptcy. I went in to mail a package and was told by the postal agent because they are so in the red, they can no longer provide 9 inches of packing tape.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!! I cannot believe you cited the god damn postal service!
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usaloyal2theend said:
DO SOMETHING YOU'RE UP CLOSE AND FAMILIAR WITH FAT ASS, AND STUFF IT!

10/16/2009 if you have enough time and a car to go to another postal office, please.... go!!

i stopped by at this location several times, not because i like the service, its simply closer to where i work. lunch time around 12 noon to 2pm, not very busy in the postal office, but i still need to stand in line for 5 to 10 minutes. bring your own shipping tapes otherwise they gonna charge you for it (full price) if they see you use one of usps's, even tho some one else probably used that tape and left it on the counter.
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Okay, so what you REALLY meant is that you are mad because the Post Office won't give you as much packing taps as you want, for FREE.

Cry me a river...since when it it the Post Office's job to provide you with the supplies, free of charge, necessary to mail a package?
 
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T&A said:
Your continuing to use this line over and over again doesn't make it true or logical. What about the people who adore government that make it run inefficiently and ineffectively? By your odd logic, their belief in government should be enough to do the job right. People who distrust government are simply operating under the system of principles this country was founded upon, and generally believe in efficiency as a virtue to be achieved one way or another.
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Well so far your the only one to make a sane pont. Wishing something so doesn't make something work. That is true. It's as true of the private sector as it is of government. But answer me this, how can you trust someone to make something work when it is their belief that it should fail?

Would you put a person in charge of an airline who doesn't beleive in airplanes?

Well that's what your doing when you put a libertarian in charge of government.
 
Superfreak said:
oh... my fault then... I didn't realize the TAPE was the issue. I am sure we can now get to proving how much tape they gave her. thanks for clearing that up.
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Well, maybe if you talk to her about her dependence on ridiculous hyperbole and refusal to stick to "the facts", then maybe you wouldn't get confused.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well so far your the only one to make a sane pont. Wishing something so doesn't make something work. That is true. It's as true of the private sector as it is of government. But answer me this, how can you trust someone to make something work when it is their belief that it should fail?

Would you put a person in charge of an airline who doesn't beleive in airplanes?

Well that's what your doing when you put a libertarian in charge of government.
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Distrust of government is the American way. Deal with it.
 
cawacko said:
I went independent contractor earlier in my career and then found out I couldn't get insurance because I have a pre-existing condition. So I went a year without insurance. The following year I went back to being an employee and got on my company's insurance plan.

Do I think a bunch of other people should be forced to buy insurance to support me? No. And no I don't hate myself or others like me. But what we've just passed is only going to exhaserbate (sp) the unfunded liabilities our country already faces while not improving the service provided. (sorry, off on a tangent). Not a good day.
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I think you mean exacerbated? What should happen is that the insurance companies learn to live on smaller margins and insist that doctors practice generic prescribing more.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Well, maybe if you talk to her about her dependence on ridiculous hyperbole and refusal to stick to "the facts", then maybe you wouldn't get confused.
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Or perhaps you could simply ignore the hyperbole and not whine about it?

Or perhaps you could simply let us know what portion of a persons post you find to be bullshit so that we don't have to guess what you mean?
 
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