Yup, that legalization of pot is a good thing

iolo said:
If you tax it too hard we'll be back to square one. The key point here is quality, I think - the fewer laws the better, but the fewer deaths and harms the better too.
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Tax it like alcohol and tobacco. There will always be people that grow thier own, but if they legalize it and put it on store shelves it will become like any other product.
 
Saltydog said:
Tax it like alcohol and tobacco. There will always be people that grow thier own, but if they legalize it and put it on store shelves it will become like any other product.
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Do you have any notion how difficult it is to grow your own tobacco? Distill your own whiskey?

The comparision is void. There is no comparison.
 
Saltydog said:
Whats your point? I am saying if they legalize it and mass produce it, it will become like any other product you can buy.
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I'm saying anybody can grow marijuana for the use anywhere, even in a city apartment.

That does not apply to tobacco and spirits.

Everybody knows this, so the blather about tax revenues is just that. Blather.
 
Saltydog said:
Tax it like alcohol and tobacco. There will always be people that grow thier own, but if they legalize it and put it on store shelves it will become like any other product.
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We tax both pretty heavily here, though they bring them in from the Continent in a big way, but there they are both subject to quality-control. But, on the whole you are right. It is comparatively easy to make and distil your own booze, but the penalties are heavy, and if you can grow tobacco here it is crap. I don't think it would be easy to make the duty on pot high: it is a matter of checking the tax 'market', no doubt.
 
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Taft2016 said:
I'm saying anybody can grow marijuana for the use anywhere, even in a city apartment.

That does not apply to tobacco and spirits.

Everybody knows this, so the blather about tax revenues is just that. Blather.
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OK now I understand where you are coming from. How many do you think will do that? I think more people would just buy it off the shelf for the convience than try to grow it to avoid taxes.
 
Taft2016 said:
Yeah, conservatives believe that in all cases state's rights trump all. :rolleyes: Conservatives fought that notion by opposing Dred Scot and Plessy v. Ferguson.

Can you muster a more compelling argument?

The first time a dope fiend slams into an SUV killing the mother driving and her children, and Colorado's laws prove insufficient to secure a conviction.... the drums will begin beating around the country for the feds to step in and correct the situation.

This experiment will prove to be short-lived. It's just a shame it blood will have to be shed to undo liberal madness. But that's what was needed to end slavery, wuzinit?
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That's quite true, conservatives only support states rights when it furthers there fascist ends. They'd just as soon ban things at the federal level.
 
Taft2016 said:
Exactly my point. We'll see how that plays out in court, and if prosecutors can secure a prosecution for it.

On one hand, it's unfair to prosecute someone for driving under the influence when they smoked months ago, on the other hand, it's unfair to let someone off who might be driving under the influence. How to know?

It's just a matter of time until a driving catastrophe occurs and makes national news. If the prosecutorial system can not prove driving under the influence.... bye bye legalized marijuana, hello federal enforcement.
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Nothing has changed regarding the dui mj laws. They are able to secure convictions now and in the past. You are just a fear mongering douchebag.

It is all over for the drug warriors, bigots and other assorted dinosaurs. It's not going to swing back in your direction.
 
Taft2016 said:
It's not an argument for keeping it entirely illegal.

It's a demonstration how libertarians are akin to liberals in that hypcrisy is their life's blood. All the blather against "big government" means nothing because you roll over for regulation, taxation, and limits on individual production ... which will results in government raids and arrests for tax evasion.

Don't make it an argument about big government.... because you obviously have no problem with big government.
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Nonsense. I prefer the Colorado system. But Washington is better than the drug war just like laws that say you can't make your own whiskey are better than full scale prohibition. Or laws that demand sales taxes on the sale of cigarettes are preferable to outlawing tobacco. I am not interested in making the best the enemy of the good or better. You support big government and use these stupid arguments to delay and obstruct the advance of liberty.

"The ground of liberty is to be gained by inches, and we must be contented to secure what we can get from time to time and eternally press forward for what is yet to get. It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Clay, 1790.
 
Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Nonsense. I prefer the Colorado system. But Washington is better than the drug war just like laws that say you can't make your own whiskey are better than full scale prohibition. Or laws that demand sales taxes on the sale of cigarettes are preferable to outlawing tobacco. I am not interested in making the best the enemy of the good or better. You support big government and use these stupid arguments to delay and obstruct the advance of liberty.

"The ground of liberty is to be gained by inches, and we must be contented to secure what we can get from time to time and eternally press forward for what is yet to get. It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Clay, 1790.
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So you're one of those new taxes, bigger government, and more government regulation libertarians?

Got it.
 
Taft2016 said:
I'm saying anybody can grow marijuana for the use anywhere, even in a city apartment.

That does not apply to tobacco and spirits.

Everybody knows this, so the blather about tax revenues is just that. Blather.
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So it's bad if they tax it and bad if people grow their own to avoid taxes? When are you going to tell us what your real problem with legalization is?
 
Taft2016 said:
So you're one of those new taxes, bigger government, and more government regulation libertarians?

Got it.
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Nope. I did not say anything like that and clearly stated otherwise. More liberty is better and, like TJ, I will take it in inches if necessary.

You are grasping at straws and spinning like a top trying to find anyway you can to rationalize your big government fascist drug war. It is all over for you dinosaurs because you don't have any real arguments.
 
Hasa Diga Eebowai said:
Nope. I did not say anything like that and clearly stated otherwise. More liberty is better and, like TJ, I will take it in inches if necessary.

You are grasping at straws and spinning like a top trying to find anyway you can to rationalize your big government fascist drug war. It is all over for you dinosaurs because you don't have any real arguments.
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Please. Stop embarrassing yourself. Essentially EVERY nation on the planet has laws against marijuana, gay marriage and/or homosexuality, although the queers have been making ground in recent years. Nonetheless, I got the whole human race on my side.

What I don't understand is why an alleged libertarian craves an official government blessing for his dope-fueled cornholing sessions. Particularly when the are so many more legitimate liberties under assault....
 
Taft2016 said:
Please. Stop embarrassing yourself. Essentially EVERY nation on the planet has laws against marijuana, gay marriage and/or homosexuality, although the queers have been making ground in recent years. Nonetheless, I got the whole human race on my side.

What I don't understand is why an alleged libertarian craves an official government blessing for his dope-fueled cornholing sessions. Particularly when the are so many more legitimate liberties under assault....
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All drugs should be legalised, it would destroy the drug barons over night.
 
Abraxas said:
All drugs should be legalised, it would destroy the drug barons over night.
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Which is a crackerjack idea if you cut that one piece out of the entire puzzle and look at it.

But what of increased addiction rates, chronic unemployed status, increased government dependency, neglected children, and an accompanying explosion of government benefits to address those problems? Liberals know legalization is their path to permanent power, their only concern is about controlling the genie once it's out of the bottle.

If the welfare state is eliminated, and I have guarantees that I won't get stuck with the bills for housing, feeding, and caring for drug addicts (and their children), I can consider legalization. Eliminate the welfare state first, then we can have a serious discussion about legalizing drugs.

And guess what? My position is more libertarian than that of any of the alleged libertarians on this forum.

But as I've said, they're not really libertarians. They're liberals who know their plans will lead to a permanent explosion in the size of government.
 
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