The philosophy of freedom

[NiftyNiblick]

I’m very comfortable with how I’m living now. And doing so quite well.

I doubt very much a person like Trump or anyone else needing the things he thinks he does to achieve happiness would be satisfied with my existence.

That's a thought.

 

[Cypress]

But does it seem that way to them?

I guess it depends on what one thinks living well means. Donald Trump and Russian oligarchs probably think a well-lived life means lots of fancy houses, gold-plated toilets, the power to intimidate people, and lots of prostitutes, mistresses, and trophy wives. Political freedom, self knowledge, and spiritual liberation probably don't even enter the calculation.. In that case, it doesn't matter that much if you live in Russia, Myanmar, or United States

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Bigots are generally free to say anything they want, short of threats of violence.

Other people have the freedom to decide for themselves if they want to be friends with that person, work with them, or invite them to social gatherings.

Freedom isn't a one way street who's highest goal is to make sure that a bigot's coworkers will still go to lunch with him.

Freedom is a two way street

As do thugs who demand others accept their positions.

You didnt answer the question, can the govt justly and morally require someone to do business with people they don't want to do business with?

You're be hard pressed to convince me freedom is a two way street

The thugs can say whatever they want but, as shown on 1/6, once they cross the line of forcing others to believe likewise or to harm others, they will be shut down...if not shot down like scumbags.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I guess it depends on what one thinks living well means. Donald Trump and Russian oligarchs probably think a well-lived life means lots of fancy houses, gold-plated toilets, the power to intimidate people, and lots of prostitutes, mistresses, and trophy wives. Political freedom, self knowledge, and spiritual liberation probably don't even enter the calculation.. in that case, it doesn't matter that much if you live in Russia, Myanmar, or United States

I live well, but don't have a fancy house, fancy cars or gold-plated toilets. I do as I please without ever seeking to or causing harm others. I'm free from want, free to think and say what I think. Free to vote for whom I like. I believe the United States is the best country in the world and am saddened by the ignorant, selfish fucks who seek to burn it down.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I guess it depends on what one thinks living well means. Donald Trump and Russian oligarchs probably think a well-lived life means lots of fancy houses, gold-plated toilets, the power to intimidate people, and lots of prostitutes, mistresses, and trophy wives. Political freedom, self knowledge, and spiritual liberation probably don't even enter the calculation.. In that case, it doesn't matter that much if you live in Russia, Myanmar, or United States

I suppose.

I also believe, however, that our constitution was SO poorly written that it allowed us to descend into a state of chaos

from which recovery by democratic means will be absolutely impossible.

 

[Cypress]

I live well, but don't have a fancy house, fancy cars or gold-plated toilets. I do as I please without ever seeking to or causing harm others. I'm free from want, free to think and say what I think. Free to vote for whom I like. I believe the United States is the best country in the world and am saddened by the ignorant, selfish fucks who seek to burn it down.

You need a certain amount of money to be reasonably comfortable. But once that threshold is reached, any desire for more wealth and possession is just superfluous and maybe even harmful.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You need a certain amount of money to be reasonably comfortable. But once that threshold is reached, any desire for more wealth and possession is just superfluous and maybe even harmful.

Agreed. Most people think they need more money than they do and this makes them unhappy.

 

[Cypress]

I suppose.

I also believe, however, that our constitution was SO poorly written that it allowed us to descend into a state of chaos

from which recovery by democratic means will be absolutely impossible.

I think it's lack of political will and special interests, not US constitution, that prevents us from making progress on economic and social equality. There's nothing in the US constitution that prevents universal healthcare, international treaties on climate change, a living minimum wage law.

 

[Cypress]

If your threads are not total wastes of bandwidth right out of the starting gate, you make sure to convert them into complete wastes.

And yet here you are again, reading through my posts and threads, taking the time to compose long winded responses, and being inspired by my threads to do your own frantic google research projects.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I think it's lack of political will and special interests, not US constitution, that prevents us from making progress on economic and social equality. There's nothing in the US constitution that prevents universal healthcare, international treaties on climate change, a living minimum wage law.

I agree. Your comment is absolutely correct as to the things that you mention.

The weakness of the constitution is the new and unique form of inefficient government that it created.

Its "federal system" created a gridlock from which it is now impossible to extricate ourselves
using any of the means offered by said constitution.

We could still do good things under that very imperfect system if higher quality people were living under it,
but in reality, we can't and won't. That's my take, anyway, and that's why I'm a partitionist.

 

[Cypress]

I agree. Your comment is absolutely correct as to the things that you mention.

The weakness of the constitution is the new and unique form of inefficient government that it created.

Its "federal system" created a gridlock from which it is now impossible to extricate ourselves
using any of the means offered by said constitution.

We could still do good things under that very imperfect system if higher quality people were living under it,
but in reality, we can't and won't. That's my take, anyway, and that's why I'm a partitionist.

I see the main problems are not having publically funded elections, and having gerrymandered House districts and a Senate which are designed to disproportionately over represent the minority.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I agree. Your comment is absolutely correct as to the things that you mention.

The weakness of the constitution is the new and unique form of inefficient government that it created.

Its "federal system" created a gridlock from which it is now impossible to extricate ourselves
using any of the means offered by said constitution.

We could still do good things under that very imperfect system if higher quality people were living under it,
but in reality, we can't and won't. That's my take, anyway, and that's why I'm a partitionist.

They intended it to be that way. A smooth, efficient government was tried in both Germany and Italy during the 1930s. Same for Japan. It didn't work out in the long run.

 

[Cypress]

Here you are trying to dishonestly inject your own Marxist whining and mischaracterizations into the historical positions of others. Stupid.

It's really funny that to your ear, The Buddha, Jesus, and the sage Vyasa sound like Marxists.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

They intended it to be that way.

I know. They clearly did.

I also believe it to have been a very foolish mistake.

In that we don't share many values,
it would be hard to see one another's point of view on the matter.

This is your cue to make a subjective comment on my values, of course.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I know. They clearly did.

I also believe it to have been a very foolish mistake.

In that we don't share many values,
it would be hard to see one another's point of view on the matter.

This is your cue to make a subjective comment on my values, of course.

Disagreed for aforementioned reasons. Long ranging changes that affect a population of over 330M Americans need careful consideration, not "quick, efficient results".

I'm also partial to the States being "laboratories of Democracy".

 

[Cypress]

Agreed. Most people think they need more money than they do and this makes them unhappy.

We saw some social science studies that demonstrated when most people reach a certain income level which allows for reasonable comfort, then the most important thing to them is more autonomy and more opportunity to cultivate their creative interests. Getting more money doesn't really add anything to their lives.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Disagreed for aforementioned reasons. Long ranging changes that affect a population of over 330M Americans need careful consideration, not "quick, efficient results".

I'm also partial to the States being "laboratories of Democracy".

You didn't, on cue, make a judgmental comment on my values.... just to make a liar out of me.

I can't even imagine how hard it was for you to restrain yourself, Oom.

Maybe you should take a break and rest now after such an effort!!!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

We saw some social science studies that demonstrated when most people reach a certain income level which allows for reasonable comfort, then the most important thing to them is more autonomy and more opportunity to cultivate their creative interests. Getting more money doesn't really add anything to their lives.

Agreed. It's the people who chase the money by thinking they need a more impressive car, a bigger house or a particular jop promotion who are unhappy.

There's also the affect of commercials on the psyche of Americans. The idea that a husband can't really love his wife unless he gives her a $5000 piece of jewelry from Jared's at Christmas.

https://www.jared.com/
https://www.jared.com/diamond-bolo-bracelet-4-ct-tw-roundcut-14k-white-gold/p/V-741344903
Diamond Bolo Bracelet 4 ct tw Round-cut 14K White Gold
Discounted price$5,249.99

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You didn't, on cue, make a judgmental comment on my values.... just to make a liar out of me.

I can't even imagine how hard it was for you to restrain yourself, Oom.

Maybe you should take a break and rest now after such an effort!!!

It's getting easier as I mellow with age. I used to be a real asshole...with a Navy callsign to match. :

Cactus...because I was prickly...and sometimes just a prick if displeased by the performance and dedication of others to the mission.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Freedom is a slippery word we throw around without ever really thinking about what it means.

this is fact, but the other part of that problem is that most people refuse to recognize the freedom of others. freedom of speech USED to be that one could say whatever idea they needed to and everyone else would support their right to say it, not agree with it, but defend that persons right to say it. Nowadays, someone says something that offends a large group of people, they are cancelled and their livelihood destroyed.

these days it seems freedom is a four letter word