Question for the Leftists on this Forum

[ZenMode]

I'm not sure if he's ever said he is -sure- that vaccines can cause autism. Note that I added the word can here. I have heard of no one argue that vaccines are the -sole- cause of autism. Anyway, a paywalled article that cuts off in the middle of the third paragraph is hardly a persuasive argument that they don't cause autism. As to the study that the CDC plans on conducting, I haven't actually seen any evidence that they have already come to any conclusions as to what all the causes of autism are. Here's what an Associated Press article had to say about it on March 9th:
**
Kennedy’s anti-vaccine views have drawn concern among some Republicans. During Kennedy’s confirmation hearing Senator Bill Cassidy, a Louisiana Republican and physician, suggested that the nominee disavow any links between vaccines and autism.

Kennedy denied that he was anti-vaccine, but did not acknowledge that such a link had been debunked.

This week Cassidy questioned Trump’s nominee to lead the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, over his stance on investigating a potential link between autism and childhood vaccinations.

"I don't generally believe there is a link, based on my reading of the literature," Bhattacharya said. "But we do have a sharp rise in autism rates, and I don't think any scientist really knows the cause of it. I would support a broad scientific agenda based on data to get an answer to that."
**

Source:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-cdc-plans-study-into-vaccines-autism-sources-say-2025-03-07/

So, how about we see what the study finds?

Sure, no one has the ability to stop RFK's ghost chasing, so we'll just have to see how it plays out.

The subject of autism and vaccine correlation has been studied and debunked, but I guess we're going to go through the exercise again. Why not? It's not like we have better things to spend money researching, right?

 

[Ross Dolan]

View attachment 47913

When I started, over at Abuzz, I was the most courteous, reasonable poster ever. Followed that path for years. Then decided to get into the fun part of Internet interaction...that has damn near nothing to do with changing minds. It has to do with the drama.

Don't sell it short. I have decent cyber relations with people on both sides of the political divide...and the religious divides.

Be as kind, reasonable, courteous as you choose. My bet: You will get no further than I or others who use this medium for fun and kicks.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Well, as I posted later, I've seen no evidence that any of his family has considered him to be either of the epithets you've used on RFK Jr. I did find an article that 3 of them consider him to be mistaken on vaccines- I'll get into that in replies to your other posts.

Okay.

 

[Scott]

I'm not sure if he's ever said he is -sure- that vaccines can cause autism. Note that I added the word can here. I have heard of no one argue that vaccines are the -sole- cause of autism. Anyway, a paywalled article that cuts off in the middle of the third paragraph is hardly a persuasive argument that they don't cause autism. As to the study that the CDC plans on conducting, I haven't actually seen any evidence that they have already come to any conclusions as to what all the causes of autism are. Here's what an Associated Press article had to say about it on March 9th:
**
Kennedy’s anti-vaccine views have drawn concern among some Republicans. During Kennedy’s confirmation hearing Senator Bill Cassidy, a Louisiana Republican and physician, suggested that the nominee disavow any links between vaccines and autism.

Kennedy denied that he was anti-vaccine, but did not acknowledge that such a link had been debunked.

This week Cassidy questioned Trump’s nominee to lead the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, over his stance on investigating a potential link between autism and childhood vaccinations.

"I don't generally believe there is a link, based on my reading of the literature," Bhattacharya said. "But we do have a sharp rise in autism rates, and I don't think any scientist really knows the cause of it. I would support a broad scientific agenda based on data to get an answer to that."
**

Source:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-cdc-plans-study-into-vaccines-autism-sources-say-2025-03-07/

So, how about we see what the study finds?

Sure, no one has the ability to stop RFK's ghost chasing, so we'll just have to see how it plays out.

I think it's be more like Mr. Scrooge's experience after seeing the Ghost of Christmas Past, but as you say, we can just see how this plays out.

The subject of autism and vaccine correlation has been studied and debunked

Absolute balderdash. There's a web site that has apparently compiled 234 papers "demonstrating the multiple associations between vaccines and autism." It can be seen here:

How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

The Body of Research Supporting Vaccine Autism Causation

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

I say apparently because I certainly haven't counted them to verify the number, but certainly a lot of papers.

For those who want to focus on just 3 papers from the one's the site has amassed, the site author posted the following 3 as representative of this body of research:

3 Studies – How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

Three papers representative of the body of research.

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

I actually started a thread with this site in the opening post in another forum almost a year ago. This thread can be seen here:

Can vaccines cause autism?

Some posters here keep on bringing up their belief that vaccines can't cause autism, so I thought that instead of continually providing evidence that they can, it would be best to make a thread on the subject. Here is a site that cites hundreds of papers associating vaccines with autism...

politicalhotwire.com

One point, I can no longer contribute to that thread, since I've been banned from the site- apparently one of the Admins decided I was a sock. I don't do socks, but I was never allowed to defend myself against the charge.

 

[Scott]

View attachment 47913

When I started, over at Abuzz, I was the most courteous, reasonable poster ever. Followed that path for years. Then decided to get into the fun part of Internet interaction...that has damn near nothing to do with changing minds. It has to do with the drama.

Don't sell it short. I have decent cyber relations with people on both sides of the political divide...and the religious divides.

Be as kind, reasonable, courteous as you choose. My bet: You will get no further than I or others who use this medium for fun and kicks.

I don't think I would describe my experience online as one just dedicated to "fun and kicks", but based on what you've said in the past, I've spent around the same amount of time in online forums as you have. While we may have started the same way, we have diverged to some extent at this point. That's fine. I get the feeling that now that you know how I post, you might even 'go easy' on me, knowing that I'm not one for the flame wars. I've come to the conclusion that a few choice meme images are best when things seem to be going nowhere with words.

I will say this- while, like you, I believe I have rarely if ever changed someone's mind on any major issue, I -do- believe that my approach leads to more productive conversations wherein both sides learn more. And I also think it's helped resolve differences on not so major issues.

 

[Scott]

Well, as I posted later, I've seen no evidence that any of his family has considered him to be either of the epithets you've used on RFK Jr. I did find an article that 3 of them consider him to be mistaken on vaccines- I'll get into that in replies to your other posts.

Okay.

After I made that post, I realized that I wasn't actually talking to -you- in those "other posts", but rather to Zenmode. The latest on that count if you're interested:

Post in thread 'Question for the Leftists on this Forum'

Sunday at 4:11 PM

I'm not sure if he's ever said he is -sure- that vaccines can cause autism. Note that I added the word can here. I have heard of no one argue that vaccines are the -sole- cause of autism. Anyway, a paywalled article that cuts off in the middle of the third paragraph is hardly a persuasive argument that they don't cause autism. As to the study that the CDC plans on conducting, I haven't actually seen any evidence that they have already come to any conclusions as to what all the causes of autism are. Here's what an Associated Press article had to say about it on March 9th:
**...

• Scott

 

[Neoclitorus]

only Nazis fight FOR fluoride in the water.

 

[Scott]

only Nazis fight FOR fluoride in the water.

I suspect you're mistaken on that count, but I think we can agree that people fighting for fluoride in water probably fall in one of 3 categories: either they don't understand its harmful effects, don't care about their harmful effects or actually -want- people to be harmed.

 

[Neoclitorus]

I suspect you're mistaken on that count, but I think we can agree that people fighting for fluoride in water probably fall in one of 3 categories: either they don't understand its harmful effects, don't care about their harmful effects or actually -want- people to be harmed.

yes.

only Nazis fight for fluoride in the water.

presuming ignorance over malice is a bygone luxury for these nazi fucktoids.


thanks for agreeing.

 

[ZenMode]

I think it's be more like Mr. Scrooge's experience after seeing the Ghost of Christmas Past, but as you say, we can just see how this plays out.



Absolute balderdash. There's a web site that has apparently compiled 234 papers "demonstrating the multiple associations between vaccines and autism." It can be seen here:

How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

The Body of Research Supporting Vaccine Autism Causation

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

I say apparently because I certainly haven't counted them to verify the number, but certainly a lot of papers.

For those who want to focus on just 3 papers from the one's the site has amassed, the site author posted the following 3 as representative of this body of research:

3 Studies – How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

Three papers representative of the body of research.

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

I actually started a thread with this site in the opening post in another forum almost a year ago. This thread can be seen here:

Can vaccines cause autism?

Some posters here keep on bringing up their belief that vaccines can't cause autism, so I thought that instead of continually providing evidence that they can, it would be best to make a thread on the subject. Here is a site that cites hundreds of papers associating vaccines with autism...

politicalhotwire.com

One point, I can no longer contribute to that thread, since I've been banned from the site- apparently one of the Admins decided I was a sock. I don't do socks, but I was never allowed to defend myself against the charge.

You're only confirming that you seek out clearly biased sources to re-inforce what you want to believe.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I don't think I would describe my experience online as one just dedicated to "fun and kicks", but based on what you've said in the past, I've spent around the same amount of time in online forums as you have. While we may have started the same way, we have diverged to some extent at this point. That's fine. I get the feeling that now that you know how I post, you might even 'go easy' on me, knowing that I'm not one for the flame wars. I've come to the conclusion that a few choice meme images are best when things seem to be going nowhere with words.

I will say this- while, like you, I believe I have rarely if ever changed someone's mind on any major issue, I -do- believe that my approach leads to more productive conversations wherein both sides learn more. And I also think it's helped resolve differences on not so major issues.

Okay.

 

[Neoclitorus]

I suspect you're mistaken on that count, but I think we can agree that people fighting for fluoride in water probably fall in one of 3 categories: either they don't understand its harmful effects, don't care about their harmful effects or actually -want- people to be harmed.

who else fights FOR fluoride in the water?

 

[Scott]

I think it's be more like Mr. Scrooge's experience after seeing the Ghost of Christmas Past, but as you say, we can just see how this plays out.

Absolute balderdash. There's a web site that has apparently compiled 234 papers "demonstrating the multiple associations between vaccines and autism." It can be seen here:

How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

The Body of Research Supporting Vaccine Autism Causation

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

I say apparently because I certainly haven't counted them to verify the number, but certainly a lot of papers.

For those who want to focus on just 3 papers from the one's the site has amassed, the site author posted the following 3 as representative of this body of research:

3 Studies – How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

Three papers representative of the body of research.

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

I actually started a thread with this site in the opening post in another forum almost a year ago. This thread can be seen here:

Can vaccines cause autism?

Some posters here keep on bringing up their belief that vaccines can't cause autism, so I thought that instead of continually providing evidence that they can, it would be best to make a thread on the subject. Here is a site that cites hundreds of papers associating vaccines with autism...

politicalhotwire.com

One point, I can no longer contribute to that thread, since I've been banned from the site- apparently one of the Admins decided I was a sock. I don't do socks, but I was never allowed to defend myself against the charge.

You're only confirming that you seek out clearly biased sources to re-inforce what you want to believe.

I write a post with witty metaphors and links to solid evidence. You respond with a slogan. I'm sure you know that propagandists -love- slogans. You have no need to think, just post a slogan and away you go.

 

[Scott]

I suspect you're mistaken on that count, but I think we can agree that people fighting for fluoride in water probably fall in one of 3 categories: either they don't understand its harmful effects, don't care about their harmful effects or actually -want- people to be harmed.

who else fights FOR fluoride in the water?

Other than the 3 categories I mentioned, I believe no one does.

 

[ZenMode]

I write a post with witty metaphors and links to solid evidence. You respond with a slogan. I'm sure you know that propagandists -love- slogans. You have no need to think, just post a slogan and away you go.

You didn't link to evidence. You linked to claims of correlation and causation where there is none. Actual studies have control groups and experiments and data.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

What the fuck makes you think anyone has to love the Democratic Party in order too tell the truth about the moron Trump? He is a disgusting human being...and so are his continuing supporters...and one does not have to love any other political party to see that.

I am left in the political spectrum...and I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT.

Haters got to hate I suppose...

 

[Scott]

I write a post with witty metaphors and links to solid evidence. You respond with a slogan. I'm sure you know that propagandists -love- slogans. You have no need to think, just post a slogan and away you go.

You didn't link to evidence. You linked to claims of correlation and causation where there is none. Actual studies have control groups and experiments and data.

Did you even click on the links? I suspect you didn't. Here's what the first one has to say:
**
The American Academy of Pediatrics FALSELY states that “Vaccines are not associated with autism.”

Following is a list of abstracts from 234 papers demonstrating the multiple associations between vaccines and autism.

Autism is a largely immune mediated condition, and the purpose of a vaccine is to change the behavior of the immune system. Vaccines and their ingredients can cause the underlying medical conditions that are commonly found in children who have been given an autism diagnosis. These conditions include immune system impairment, autoimmune conditions, neuroinflammation, gastrointestinal damage, neurological regression, mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress, glial cell activation, interleukin-6 secretion dysregulation, damage to the blood–brain barrier, seizures, dendritic cell dysfunction, mercury poisoning, aluminum toxicity, gene activation and alteration, glutathione depletion, impaired methylation, impaired thioredoxin regulation, impairment of the opioid system, cellular apoptosis, endocrine dysfunction, and other disorders.
**

Source:

How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

The Body of Research Supporting Vaccine Autism Causation

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

Now, I can understand that you wouldn't want to read all 234 studies. I certainly haven't. That's why I included the -second- link that focuses on just 3 that the author of the site believes are representative of the 234 studies. Quoting from that second page:
**
3 Studies

Three papers representative of the body of research.

[1] Inflammation and Autophagy: A Convergent Point between Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)-Related Genetic and Environmental Factors: Focus on Aluminum Adjuvants

[2] The Putative Role of Environmental Mercury in the Pathogenesis and Pathophysiology of Autism Spectrum Disorders and Subtypes

[3] Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?
**

Let me know if you click on any of the links. Or at least respond to the material I've quoted.

 

[ZenMode]

Did you even click on the links? I suspect you didn't. Here's what the first one has to say:
**
The American Academy of Pediatrics FALSELY states that “Vaccines are not associated with autism.”

Following is a list of abstracts from 234 papers demonstrating the multiple associations between vaccines and autism.

Autism is a largely immune mediated condition, and the purpose of a vaccine is to change the behavior of the immune system. Vaccines and their ingredients can cause the underlying medical conditions that are commonly found in children who have been given an autism diagnosis. These conditions include immune system impairment, autoimmune conditions, neuroinflammation, gastrointestinal damage, neurological regression, mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress, glial cell activation, interleukin-6 secretion dysregulation, damage to the blood–brain barrier, seizures, dendritic cell dysfunction, mercury poisoning, aluminum toxicity, gene activation and alteration, glutathione depletion, impaired methylation, impaired thioredoxin regulation, impairment of the opioid system, cellular apoptosis, endocrine dysfunction, and other disorders.
**

Source:

How Do Vaccines Cause Autism?

The Body of Research Supporting Vaccine Autism Causation

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

Now, I can understand that you wouldn't want to read all 234 studies. I certainly haven't. That's why I included the -second- link that focuses on just 3 that the author of the site believes are representative of the 234 studies. Quoting from that second page:
**
3 Studies

Three papers representative of the body of research.

[1] Inflammation and Autophagy: A Convergent Point between Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)-Related Genetic and Environmental Factors: Focus on Aluminum Adjuvants

[2] The Putative Role of Environmental Mercury in the Pathogenesis and Pathophysiology of Autism Spectrum Disorders and Subtypes

[3] Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?
**

Let me know if you click on any of the links. Or at least respond to the material I've quoted.

I read through both of them. There were no study results showing a connection between vaccines and autism. If there were, I would expect the articles you linked to show some of the data.

Without study results, they are just saying things.

 

[Scott]

I read through both of them. There were no study results showing a connection between vaccines and autism. If there were, I would expect the articles you linked to show some of the data.

Without study results, they are just saying things.

There -were- study results, but you did have to click on the links within the 2 pages I linked to. Here's what the link to the first of the 3 studies had to say:
**
Autism spectrum disorder (ASD), schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder are genetically complex and heterogeneous neurodevelopmental disorders (NDDs) resulting from genetic factors and gene-environment (GxE) interactions for which onset occurs in early brain development. Recent progress highlights the link between ASD and (i) immunogenetics, neurodevelopment, and inflammation, and (ii) impairments of autophagy, a crucial neurodevelopmental process involved in synaptic pruning. Among various environmental factors causing risk for ASD, aluminum (Al)-containing vaccines injected during critical periods have received special attention and triggered relevant scientific questions. The aim of this review is to discuss the current knowledge on the role of early inflammation, immune and autophagy dysfunction in ASD as well as preclinical studies which question Al adjuvant impacts on brain and immune maturation. We highlight the most recent breakthroughs and the lack of epidemiological, pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic data constituting a “scientific gap”. We propose additional research, such as genetic studies that could contribute to identify populations at genetic risk, improving diagnosis, and potentially the development of new therapeutic tools.

Excerpts:
“As a result of these pieces of evidence (epidemiological, clinical and preclinical data) pointing to a potential causal association between early ABA (aluminum-based adjuvants) exposure and increased ASD risk, new hypotheses regarding neurological and immunological consequences of ABA-containing vaccines and novel clinical strategies (i.e., postponing of ABA-containing vaccines and replacement of ABAs with calcium phosphate are now being considered.“

“Our review presents the lack of fundamental scientific data demonstrating that Al adjuvants are safe and do not induce any long-term side effects. It also supports further investigation related to the effects of early Al adjuvant exposures occurring in combination with genetic susceptibility factors, including autophagy, immune and inflammation process genes. As accumulating evidence shows that modulating the levels of autophagy may increase the risk of NDDs, such studies will elucidate a new etiology for these complex disorders and contribute to develop potential new diagnostic and therapeutic tools.”


**

Source:

Inflammation and Autophagy: A Convergent Point between Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)-Related Genetic and Environmental Factors: Focus on Aluminum Adjuvants

Excerpts: “As a result of these pieces of evidence (epidemiological, clinical and preclinical data) pointing to a potential causal association between early ABA (aluminum-based adjuvants) exposure …

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

 

[christiefan915]

There -were- study results, but you did have to click on the links within the 2 pages I linked to. Here's what the link to the first of the 3 studies had to say:
**
Autism spectrum disorder (ASD), schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder are genetically complex and heterogeneous neurodevelopmental disorders (NDDs) resulting from genetic factors and gene-environment (GxE) interactions for which onset occurs in early brain development. Recent progress highlights the link between ASD and (i) immunogenetics, neurodevelopment, and inflammation, and (ii) impairments of autophagy, a crucial neurodevelopmental process involved in synaptic pruning. Among various environmental factors causing risk for ASD, aluminum (Al)-containing vaccines injected during critical periods have received special attention and triggered relevant scientific questions. The aim of this review is to discuss the current knowledge on the role of early inflammation, immune and autophagy dysfunction in ASD as well as preclinical studies which question Al adjuvant impacts on brain and immune maturation. We highlight the most recent breakthroughs and the lack of epidemiological, pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic data constituting a “scientific gap”. We propose additional research, such as genetic studies that could contribute to identify populations at genetic risk, improving diagnosis, and potentially the development of new therapeutic tools.

Excerpts:
“As a result of these pieces of evidence (epidemiological, clinical and preclinical data) pointing to a potential causal association between early ABA (aluminum-based adjuvants) exposure and increased ASD risk, new hypotheses regarding neurological and immunological consequences of ABA-containing vaccines and novel clinical strategies (i.e., postponing of ABA-containing vaccines and replacement of ABAs with calcium phosphate are now being considered.“

“Our review presents the lack of fundamental scientific data demonstrating that Al adjuvants are safe and do not induce any long-term side effects. It also supports further investigation related to the effects of early Al adjuvant exposures occurring in combination with genetic susceptibility factors, including autophagy, immune and inflammation process genes. As accumulating evidence shows that modulating the levels of autophagy may increase the risk of NDDs, such studies will elucidate a new etiology for these complex disorders and contribute to develop potential new diagnostic and therapeutic tools.”

View attachment 48033
**

Source:

Inflammation and Autophagy: A Convergent Point between Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)-Related Genetic and Environmental Factors: Focus on Aluminum Adjuvants

Excerpts: “As a result of these pieces of evidence (epidemiological, clinical and preclinical data) pointing to a potential causal association between early ABA (aluminum-based adjuvants) exposure …

howdovaccinescauseautism.org

With all due respect, an organization that calls itself "howdovaccinescauseautism.org" does not seem concerned about the scientific method.