Abortion....According to KingRaw

KingRaw! said:
"So abortion is responsible?"


Yes when it includes poverty, aids, extreme poverty, abusive parents, drug addicted parents, the mother's life is in danger, keeping your other kids from going into extreme poverty, ruining the mother's life, etc.


"It isn't "as human"? The text books that teach embryoloy don't even teach that. The human embryo has everything it needs humanwise to develop into a human. So what qualifies something to be "not as human"? Define "not as human.""


Not as human- Not developed enough as a new born baby. I can't make it any simpler than that. When a fetus passes the point of development to where it's basically a full grown baby in a womb, I consider that valuable life. You consider the fetus valuable from the second it's made. We disagree on the point of no return. You hold the bar from the very beginning. I hold the bar from when the fetus is almost ready to come out.
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Like I said, I agree with what the text books say and what the senate has defined it as.

A 1981 U.S. Senate report states, "Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being - a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings." (Subcommittee on Separation of Powers, Ibid.)
 
Watermark said:
It sucks off of her food. Surely you don't support forcing people to pay for loser who refuse to get a job, do you, Mr. Libertarian?
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However it isn't harming her, unless she decides not to eat. The body is designed for this and appetite increases to adapt for it. It isn't like a parasite taking from what it is not designed to be taken from.

That is not "harm" in any real sense, the body was designed to incubate the child.
 
KingRaw! said:
"So abortion is responsible?"


Yes when it includes poverty, aids, extreme poverty, abusive parents, drug addicted parents, the mother's life is in danger, keeping your other kids from going into extreme poverty, ruining the mother's life, etc.
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So if you are poor, have a disease, abusive parents, drug addicted parents, (mothers life is in danger is less than 1% of the abortion cases according to the CDC.) or whatever else you quoted....then that means that you do not warrant equal protection as a human being?
 
firemedic227 said:
So if you are poor, have a disease, abusive parents, drug addicted parents, (mothers life is in danger is less than 1% of the abortion cases according to the CDC.) or whatever else you quoted....then that means that you do not warrant equal protection as a human being?
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If such was the criteria... Beethoven would never have been born.
 
firemedic227 said:
Now that's odd. You just said that if I share the same views as him that I am a bigot. if I shared your views would I still be considered a bigot? Could your views be considered bigotted against mine?
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Here's the definition of bigot

"intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views"


I don't think that my non-beliefs are the absolute truth. I'll admit that your faith could be true or the muslim faith or the mormon faith. I would vote for a christian if we shared the same political views, not because of their faith. I'm not gay but I accept them as equals as me and should have the same rights as me. I don't hate republicans and won't lie about them because we disagree on political issues. I understand why people are pro-life, but in the end I think the pro-choice view is the better of the 2. I don't try to shove my beliefs down the throats of others and won't demonize them if they disagree. But I am intolerant of intolerant people like Bill Keller, Jerry Falwell and Ann Coulter. So I guess you could call me a bigot on that part.
 
KingRaw! said:
I think Keller's views on all of those issues I listed are extremely bigoted. And if you share the same views as him on all of those issues, then you have extremley bigoted opinions.
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With all due respect, here's what I hear you saying. Unless I agree with you, you will not tolerate my view. Privately, you'll let me think whatever I want, but you don't want me to act as if my view is true. It seems you think tolerance is a virtue if and only if people agree with you.
 
Damocles said:
If such was the criteria... Beethoven would never have been born.
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Why is that? His mother clearly didn't want to abort him. Otherwise she would've done it. It wasn't the big fucking deal back then that it is today now that we have so many fascist who want to use the government to force decisions on issues rather than have the individual decide for themselves.
 
Watermark said:
Why is that? His mother clearly didn't want to abort him. Otherwise she would've done it. It wasn't the big fucking deal back then that it is today now that we have so many fascist who want to use the government to force decisions on issues rather than have the individual decide for themselves.
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Really, abortion was an option at that time?

WM, you are seriously without a taste of reality.

If it was a reason to abort a child because the mother had a disease and was drug addicted Beethoven would not have been born.
 
Damocles said:
However it isn't harming her, unless she decides not to eat. The body is designed for this and appetite increases to adapt for it. It isn't like a parasite taking from what it is not designed to be taken from.

That is not "harm" in any real sense, the body was designed to incubate the child.
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And you're body was designed to pay my taxes.
 
KingRaw! said:
Here's the definition of bigot

"intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views"


I don't think that my non-beliefs are the absolute truth. I'll admit that your faith could be true or the muslim faith or the mormon faith. I would vote for a christian if we shared the same political views, not because of their faith. I'm not gay but I accept them as equals as me and should have the same rights as me. I don't hate republicans and won't lie about them because we disagree on political issues. I understand why people are pro-life, but in the end I think the pro-choice view is the better of the 2. I don't try to shove my beliefs down the throats of others and won't demonize them if they disagree. But I am intolerant of intolerant people like Bill Keller, Jerry Falwell and Ann Coulter. So I guess you could call me a bigot on that part.
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Then don't listen to them.
 
Watermark said:
It was only made illegal because the procedure was generally unsafe for the mother, like most surgery back then. This 'ZOMG ABORTION IS BABY MURDER" nonsense is a modern invention.
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Discovery would be more like it. It pretty much began with the advent of sonograms and with an actual scientific understanding of what all the stages are.
 
Damocles said:
Really, abortion was an option at that time?

WM, you are seriously without a taste of reality.

If it was a reason to abort a child because the mother had a disease and was drug addicted Beethoven would not have been born.
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It was a reason. But Beethovens mother chose not to abort.
 
Watermark said:
Fixed it.

The scientific community is unequivocal in it's support of a womans natural right to choose.
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That would be incorrect. Very many Doctors, all scientists, are against abortion as well as many other scientists. "Unequivocal" is at the least an exaggeration, and at most a deliberate falsehood.
 
Watermark said:
It was a reason. But Beethovens mother chose not to abort.
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It was not an option at the time. But one more time. His criteria did not include the choice of the mother. I pointed out that if that was all his criteria was Beethoven would not be born.

Your nitpicking notwithstanding, if his criteria were followed, Beethoven would not have been born.
 
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