Abortion

Mott the Hoople said:
I bet if you actually did statistics you'd find out that most of the women having abortions come from politically and socially conservative families who didn't bother to educate their daughters in birth control.
Click to expand...

Besides, what would Mommy Conservative say if she found a condom in her son's pocket on laundry day or what would Daddy Conservative do if his daughter happened to drop a condom on the floor in front of him when retrieving something from her purse? One can bet she'd be punished which makes as much sense as punishing her for using seat belts.

A couple of years ago a girl delivered a baby in the washroom at a school dance and then returned to the dance. When questioned why she never told her parents she was pregnant she replied, "It would break my Daddy's heart."

Imagine the guilt and shame and stress that girl experienced, day after day, for months. So much so that her thinking was twisted.

Although she attended a public school this is one of the major reasons I am against home schooling. At least when children go to school they see and experience "life". How many crackpot parents are not only indoctrinating their children from the time a child normally gets home from school until they leave in the morning but use the home school day to further twist their minds?

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Mott the Hoople said:
Nope. That's a complete strawman. Last I heard the clinics where they do abortions don't have a check list of

A - Female?

B - Pregnant?

C - Democrat or Republican? Oh, I'm sorry you're a Republican you can't have an abortion!

I mean it's a complete bullshit argument. I bet if you actually did statistics you'd find out that most of the women having abortions come from politically and socially conservative families who didn't bother to educate their daughters in birth control.

Using my family as an example. We've been extremelly liberal about sex education. My mother gave me a box of condoms when I was a teenager and they harped on me that if I wanted to have sex I'd better be prepared to raise a family. My aunts and uncles were equally as liberal.

Guess what? In the last two generations only no child in my entire extended family has been born out of wedlock in two generation an no one has ever had an abortion.

So truth be known, if you want to make a strawman argument out of it, it's probably a lot closer to the truth that that a lot more young women from conservative back grounds who have been kept ignorant of birth control and have not been provided a quality education in reproductive biology who are the ones having abortions.

That's why SM is such a huge hypocrit. Making abortion illegal won't stop them from happening. It will just make women criminals. What will reduce abortions is sex education and who are the most staunchest opponents of sex education? Reactionary wingnuts like SM.
Click to expand...
 
Threedee said:
Having an abortion is as much about character as it is about circumstance. All the sex education in the world can't make a girl into a worthwhile human being.

Also, I was a sheltered child, but I didn't need the 4 straight years of sex ed to enlighten me that "safety first, lads," is more than just a British expression.
Click to expand...
That or self control is the best birth control. Be that as it may, my point is that, SM assertion that those who have abortions are liberals is one of the stupidest strawmen ever posted on this site.

The fact that liberals may support a womans right to chose doesn't mean they are the ones having abortions.
 
Ice Dancer said:
You are so full of shit~~~ 97% of all abortions are for convenience...anyone, apart from victims of rape, who get preganant with an unwanted baby now-a-days is either stupid or careless or both.
Click to expand...
I agree, ignorant girls from conservative families who were denied the sex education they needed to make the right informed decisions.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That or self control is the best birth control. Be that as it may, my point is that, SM assertion that those who have abortions are liberals is one of the stupidest strawmen ever posted on this site.

The fact that liberals may support a womans right to chose doesn't mean they are the ones having abortions.
Click to expand...

Birds of a feather,,,,,
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That or self control is the best birth control. Be that as it may, my point is that, SM assertion that those who have abortions are liberals is one of the stupidest strawmen ever posted on this site.

The fact that liberals may support a womans right to chose doesn't mean they are the ones having abortions.
Click to expand...

Self-control is a great idea, as well as a highly illiberal one.
 
Abortion = Bogus Wedge Issue

Mott the Hoople said:
That or self control is the best birth control. Be that as it may, my point is that, SM assertion that those who have abortions are liberals is one of the stupidest strawmen ever posted on this site.

The fact that liberals may support a womans right to chose doesn't mean they are the ones having abortions.
Click to expand...

You don't have to be a liberal to support freedom. Only a slave can be ordered to have a child against her will. The baby isn't a human being until it can live on it's own and that goes all the way back to the beginning of civilization.

The religious argument doesn't fly either. Jesus was a first century Hebrew. He believed that the soul didn't enter the body until it had lived a month on it's own. That's why they didn't even name the rug rat until it's 30th day.
 
augustino5150 said:
You don't have to be a liberal to support freedom. Only a slave can be ordered to have a child against her will. The baby isn't a human being until it can live on it's own and that goes all the way back to the beginning of civilization.

The religious argument doesn't fly either. Jesus was a first century Hebrew. He believed that the soul didn't enter the body until it had lived a month on it's own. That's why they didn't even name the rug rat until it's 30th day.
Click to expand...

"The Lord called me before my birth. From within the womb he called me by my name...He said to me, `You are my servant'..." (Isaiah 49:1,3 TLB); "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb" (Psalm 139:13).

As to Jewish customs based on interpreation of law; these rulings have changed over the centuries. Making their prophetic rationale moot.

Jewish law has remained viable and relevant because each generation of interpreters applied the halakhah to its own time. The Committee on Jewish Law and Standards of the Rabbinical Assembly of the Conservative movement adopted a new position vis-a-vis neonatal death in 1992 by accepting the t'shuvah (rabbinic responsum) of Rabbi Stephanie Dickstein to the question, "What should be Jewish practice following the death of an infant who lives less than 31 days?"

Rabbi Dickstein points out that the commonly held belief that there is no mourning for a child who does not survive to 31 days is not the only position found in Jewish legal literature. In Mishnah Niddah 5:3, we find this statement: "A one-day-old infant, if he dies, is considered to his father and mother like a full bridegroom," and therefore the child would be mourned.
In the Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sbabbat136a, we read that the sons of Rav Dimi and Rav Kahana mourned for their newborns who died.

Even Maimonides states: "If a man knows for certain that the child was born after a full nine months, even if it dies on the day it is born, we mourn it" (Aveilut 1:7). The Shulhan Arukh concurs (Yoreh De'ah 374:8). Rabbi Dickstein also points to the universally accepted requirement to bury a newborn infant, stillborn or fetus miscarried after the fifth month.
 
Playing God?

"The Lord called me before my birth. From within the womb he called me by my name...He said to me, `You are my servant'..." (Isaiah 49:1,3 TLB); "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb" (Psalm 139:13).

The Lord is speaking to a Prophet. Are you that prophet?
Jewish customs and interpretation have changed but the 613 sins haven't. That's why Jesus and Paul both warned Christians not to go down that road.

A baby less than 31 days old was given a soul in 1992? About time... lol
This just proves that abortion is a bogus divisive issue. We are using Bible quotes that aren't about abortion.
Where does the Bible give me the right to order a woman to bear a child against her will?
Where does Natural Law give me the right to order a woman to bear a child against her will?
Where does the Constitution give me the right to order a woman to bear a child against her will?

What gives me the right to play God?
 
augustino5150 said:
You don't have to be a liberal to support freedom. Only a slave can be ordered to have a child against her will. The baby isn't a human being until it can live on it's own and that goes all the way back to the beginning of civilization.

The religious argument doesn't fly either. Jesus was a first century Hebrew. He believed that the soul didn't enter the body until it had lived a month on it's own. That's why they didn't even name the rug rat until it's 30th day.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying a 2 year old can be terminated, since it can't live on its own?
 
If the right wants forced birth then I think they should put their names on a list. When these rape, incest and unwanted babies are born and your name comes to the top of the list - you get one.

Now this could be a good thing for conservatives. You can raise this child as a servant or put them to work for a little extra cash for your next vacation.
 
Terminate The Monster!

Threedee said:
So, you're saying a 2 year old can be terminated, since it can't live on its own?
Click to expand...

Of course not. A two year old can survive just fine without its mother. I think it's human at birth. Jesus thought it took thirty days. Who's right? Don't know or care. I'm not Christian nor Jewish and if you abort or not abort makes no difference to me but I will never order a woman to bear a child against her will, nor support those who do.
 
What's An Unwanted Kid Worth?

Crashk said:
If the right wants forced birth then I think they should put their names on a list. When these rape, incest and unwanted babies are born and your name comes to the top of the list - you get one.

Now this could be a good thing for conservatives. You can raise this child as a servant or put them to work for a little extra cash for your next vacation.
Click to expand...

Can we sell them?
 
augustino5150 said:
"The Lord called me before my birth. From within the womb he called me by my name...He said to me, `You are my servant'..." (Isaiah 49:1,3 TLB); "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb" (Psalm 139:13).

The Lord is speaking to a Prophet. Are you that prophet?
Jewish customs and interpretation have changed but the 613 sins haven't. That's why Jesus and Paul both warned Christians not to go down that road.

A baby less than 31 days old was given a soul in 1992? About time... lol
This just proves that abortion is a bogus divisive issue. We are using Bible quotes that aren't about abortion.
Where does the Bible give me the right to order a woman to bear a child against her will?
Where does Natural Law give me the right to order a woman to bear a child against her will?
Where does the Constitution give me the right to order a woman to bear a child against her will?

What gives me the right to play God?
Click to expand...

I only used bible quotes to show your erroneous claims about what the bible says and I quoted rabbinical law to show your errors there as well.

Abortions’ kill unborn babies. You are the one who wished to bring "religious" perspectives into the discussion and then throw a hiss fit when you are challenged on your own argument.

No one has asked for you to play God. Killing innocent life is just wrong. Raising children is certainly as much a burden as bearing one so perhaps we should allow the woman to end the life of her child at any stage before adulthood? Or is it just tidier to kill it before you have to look into its eyes? Maybe adoption should be the alternative to raising a child…you know, like let it live.
 
augustino5150 said:
Of course not. A two year old can survive just fine without its mother. I think it's human at birth. Jesus thought it took thirty days. Who's right? Don't know or care. I'm not Christian nor Jewish and if you abort or not abort makes no difference to me but I will never order a woman to bear a child against her will, nor support those who do.
Click to expand...

A two year old cannot survive on its own, though. I also don't think it requires a religious perspective to oppose killing an innocent person. When I first became aware of what abortion was, I was at school, talking to my classmates in the hall, and I was instantly appalled by the concept, because I knew instintively that it is wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top