Americans Are Mistaken About Who Gets Welfare

[PraiseKek]

Benefit cliffs are a problem. They affect white benefit recipients just as they do minority recipients, though.

Yes they do which is why welfare programs have not only done nothing to end poverty but has in fact exacerbated it.

Everything you provided in this part is beside the point and does nothing to show why black/hispanic minorities are disproportionately impoverished.

Bullshit, welfare perpetuates the cycle of dependency and culture of poverty.

So?

You said "whites" as in all whites benefited from slavery as opposed to "slave owners."

Did it make whites poorer relative to blacks? I don't think so.

It certainly didn't help the wages of low skilled white laborers.

It may have made the South poorer relative to the North but that IS definitely a different argument/discussion than the topic we were on.

No it definitely is not a separate argument, the argument is that disincentives for innovation and productivity hurr innovation and productivity.

In the 1930s, the Federal Housing Authority established mortgage underwriting standards that significantly discriminated against minority neighborhoods. Between 1945 and 1959, African Americans received only 2 percent of all federally insured home loans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Housing_Administration#Redlining

Show me these race based standards, I'll wait, they didn't recieve loans because they didn't have credit not because they were black and we saw what happens when we force banks to give home loans to those with poor credit because of their race like how the Clinton presidency used the Community Reinvestment Act to extend affirmative action to the financial sector causing the housing market collapse.

LOL... You are counting people that lived in the newly annexed area as immigrants. That's absolute nonsense and I had already made note of them in my initial post.

I was mainly talking about the gold rush immigrants.

What about the fact that the income of Asians was already at parity with whites when the programs you are attacking were implemented? You failed to address that.

You offered no evidence of that assertion.

Obviously, it was not my argument.

Your attempts to cherry pick, strawman and distort are rather pathetic. I won't bother responding to more of them.

Lol you are asserting that recent hispanic immigrants are more dependent on welfare than already assimilated hispanics, so the logical conclusion is that we should nor be importing people who are net drains on the economy.

 

[TTQ64]

Racist, greedy white men hoarded all the profits from slavery, caused the great depression, then implemented welfare programs for poor whites.

Once they were forced to give welfare to Blacks is when they started to hate it.

Then came the lies about Blacks and welfare that Americans believe today:

Generational welfare
Welfare queen
destroying the debt
Lazy fucks
it hurts them
They won't find a job
white peoples taxes paying for welfare
all Blacks on welfare
etc.

All pure, unadulterated. LIES.

Racist white men have been trying to take away welfare since they had to give it to Blacks.

it was perfectly fine when only whites were getting it.

 

[Timshel]

You said "whites" as in all whites benefited from slavery as opposed to "slave owners."

Nope. You inserted all. I can't stop you from adding subtext. But WE are talking in generalities and relative terms here and I made part of that explicit.

White people benefitted relative to blacks. Not all.

It certainly didn't help the wages of low skilled white laborers.

See above. Generalities and relative terms. You are not under the impression that ALL blacks receive welfare are you? I did not understand you to mean that, but since you seem unable to understand my use of generalities, I have to wonder should I bring that same proclivity to misunderstand in response to you?

No it definitely is not a separate argument, the argument is that disincentives for innovation and productivity hurr innovation and productivity.

It definitely is.

Show me these race based standards, I'll wait, they didn't recieve loans because they didn't have credit not because they were black and we saw what happens when we force banks to give home loans to those with poor credit because of their race like how the Clinton presidency used the Community Reinvestment Act to extend affirmative action to the financial sector causing the housing market collapse.

You have your citation. Prove it wrong. I will wait.

I was mainly talking about the gold rush immigrants.

The gold rush happened before statehood. I already made not of those peoples.

You offered no evidence of that assertion.

I did. Twice. The Pew link.

Lol you are asserting that recent hispanic immigrants are more dependent on welfare than already assimilated hispanics, so the logical conclusion is that we should nor be importing people who are net drains on the economy.

That's your non sequitur conclusion.

We are done. I don't have enough time for shitposters that need me to repeat sources three times.

 

[Timshel]

Spare me, whites and blacks starting in the same tax bracket have nearly identical levels of socioeconomic mobility provided 1) they graduate from highschool and 2) they come from a 2 parent household, the problem is blacks have far more kids dropping out and far more children out of wedlock.

Did I say otherwise? Nope.

 

[cawacko]

Racist, greedy white men hoarded all the profits from slavery, caused the great depression, then implemented welfare programs for poor whites.

Once they were forced to give welfare to Blacks is when they started to hate it.

Then came the lies about Blacks and welfare that Americans believe today:

Generational welfare
Welfare queen
destroying the debt
Lazy fucks
it hurts them
They won't find a job
white peoples taxes paying for welfare
all Blacks on welfare
etc.

All pure, unadulterated. LIES.

Racist white men have been trying to take away welfare since they had to give it to Blacks.

it was perfectly fine when only whites were getting it.

So even though way more whites than any other race get welfare "racist white men" want to eliminate all welfare just because black people get some?

It's amazing the number of people receiving entitlements/welfare only continues to grow even though all these people want to take it away.

I would be interested in hearing what racism causes the Great Depression if you are open to sharing.

 

[evince]

yes the racist ones want to do that wack

 

[evince]

So even though way more whites than any other race get welfare "racist white men" want to eliminate all welfare just because black people get some?

It's amazing the number of people receiving entitlements/welfare only continues to grow even though all these people want to take it away.

I would be interested in hearing what racism causes the Great Depression if you are open to sharing.

the same way it always does


racism is used to soothe the white poor


they are less than you

so even though your poor your not the BOTTOM


divide and conquer the poor and keep them that way so they are like wage slaves

history repeats

 

[NOVA]

When everything is racism, nothing is racism

 

[Timshel]

So even though way more whites than any other race get welfare "racist white men" want to eliminate all welfare just because black people get some?

I don't hear many of them arguing for the elimination of welfare. They just use it to demean minorities. Currently, they are using it to convince us to close our borders, then they'll pick another target.

 

[cawacko]

I don't hear many of them arguing for the elimination of welfare. They just use it to demean minorities. Currently, they are using it to convince us to close our borders, then they'll pick another target.


Make your point about more whites receiving benefits and the response from white supremacists is to lie with statistics. See...





Note that the relevant population is poor people, not Americans in general (which explodes their supremacy narrative) and they will change the topic denying that past and current discrimination against minorities has any impact on those minorities greater rates of poverty.

for starters TTQ64 believes Libertarians are racist so if you voted for Gary Johnson...

My comments above have nothing to do with race. In 2015, 55% of all households, which includes more than 170 million people, received cash or in-kind benefits from at least one major entitlement program. Look at the demographics and the coming retirement of the baby boomers that is going to put even more stress on S.S. and Medicare.

When was the last time entitlements have been cut? They keep growing and growing and becoming more liberalized and there is no will to stop it.

 

[Timshel]

for starters TTQ64 believes Libertarians are racist so if you voted for Gary Johnson...

My comments above have nothing to do with race. In 2015, 55% of all households, which includes more than 170 million people, received cash or in-kind benefits from at least one major entitlement program. Look at the demographics and the coming retirement of the baby boomers that is going to put even more stress on S.S. and Medicare.

When was the last time entitlements have been cut? They keep growing and growing and becoming more liberalized and there is no will to stop it.

Why should i care?

Of course, there are racist "libertarians" and even those who wish to align with white supremacist.

There is a bit of a war going on within the party/movement to kick them out. The party even issued a statement asking them to leave.

Tom Woods, the LvMI, LRC, to a lesser extent Ron Paul, and to a much larger extent that pos Hoppe are all on my shit list.

I always thought Hoppe was horrible, but i failed to realize how much they all were still pursuing their paleolibertarian strategy (note: that strategy was disavowed by Ron Paul early on
http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/29/ron-pauls-march-1990-reaction-to-the-pal). They laid it out 30 years ago, which was a bit before my entry, and made explicit their desire to model such asshats as David Duke and Joe McCarthy. They backed Buchanan, as well, (edit) and these are the ones that usually vote Republican. You know someone here that is a good example of this crowd.

The Florida LP has serious problem that I posted about here before.

The first step to disowning it is to own it.

Gary Johnson is not a racist, afaik. I dont believe most libertarians are. But it is what it is.

Steven Horwitz on the LvMI
http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2017/08/rhetoric-libertarians-unfortunate-appeal-alt-right/

David Boaz on Ron Paul's newsletters
https://www.cato.org/blog/ron-pauls-ugly-newsletters

Libertarian Party says get the f out
https://www.lp.org/libertarians-condemn-bigotry-irrational-repugnant/

Paleolibertarian strategy for outreach to rednecks
http://rothbard.altervista.org/articles/right-wing-populism.pdf
http://www.pericles.press/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Liberty_Magazine.pdf

 

[Timshel]

for starters TTQ64 believes Libertarians are racist so if you voted for Gary Johnson...

My comments above have nothing to do with race. In 2015, 55% of all households, which includes more than 170 million people, received cash or in-kind benefits from at least one major entitlement program. Look at the demographics and the coming retirement of the baby boomers that is going to put even more stress on S.S. and Medicare.

When was the last time entitlements have been cut? They keep growing and growing and becoming more liberalized and there is no will to stop it.

Yeah, your numbers include ss and medicare which is expanding simply due to the aging population, not a cycle of dependence. It's not a useful point.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[cawacko]

Why should i care?

Of course, there are racist "libertarians" and even those who wish to align with white supremacist.

There is a bit of a war going on within the party/movement to kick them out. The party even issued a statement asking them to leave.

Tom Woods, the LvMI, LRC, to a lesser extent Ron Paul, and to a much larger extent that pos Hoppe are all on my shit list.

I always thought Hoppe was horrible, but i failed to realize how much they all were still pursuing their paleolibertarian strategy. They laid it out 30 years ago, which was a bit before my entry, and made explicit their desire to model such asshats as David Duke and Joe McCarthy. They backed Buchanan, as well, (edit) and these are the ones that usually vote Republican. You know someone here that is a good example of this crowd.

The Florida LP has serious problem that I posted about here before.

The first step to disowning it is to own it.

Gary Johnson is not a racist, afaik. I dont believe most libertarians are. But it is what it is.

You are correct, there is no reason for you to care. She thinks libertarian thought is racist but ultimately it doesn't mean anything

 

[cawacko]

Yeah, your numbers include ss and medicare which is expanding simply due to the aging population, not a cycle of dependence. It's not a useful point.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

It's a very useful point considering the younger generation doesn't have enough to workers to maintain today's levels of benefits going forward. There is also a high number of under 65 that receive a gov't entitlement. It's leading to a less dynamic economy and even larger debt.

 

[Timshel]

It's a very useful point considering the younger generation doesn't have enough to workers to maintain today's levels of benefits going forward. There is also a high number of under 65 that receive a gov't entitlement. It's leading to a less dynamic economy and even larger debt.

It's relevant to the point that the social safety net is unsustainable (hence my bringing up UBI). It's NOT relevant to poverty or the argument that programs for the poor sustain it.

BTW, if you add SS/Medicare into the calculation on the demographics of who is receiving benefits, then the disproportionate use by minorities is sure to decline significantly, since those two programs tend to benefit whites more.

You are conflating the degenerate/alt right attacks on welfare (and pushback from the left and others) with all entitlements. Go talk to the right about cutting SS/Medicare and they will tell you that's not a government program (I have already been down that road).

They are not talking SS/Medicare in this thread either. No, they just want to hate on the poor, which provides cover for them hating on minorities, and attempting to use these arguments to support their notions of superiority.

 

[CFM]

Reason vs result, okay but you took me out of context. Poor is a label. Having no money is the reason for the label, but can be a result in a different context.

I have not blamed anyone.

When you start life poor/rich it is not a result of anything you can control. One is more likely to end poor if they started poor than someone that started rich/middle class. Beginning poor is clearly a causative factor/one reason in a result of being poor. It's not the only reason or factor but it most certainly IS a significant factor.

No one said you could control whether you start your life poor or rich. Either one of two things can happen if someone is born poor. Efforts can be made by that person to change that situation or excuses will be made while remaining poor. You gave a poor person one in your response - 'I was born poor so if I stay poor it's not my fault'.

In the end, it's not the government's place to force those that weren't born poor to hand over what they earned to someone that was.

 

[CFM]

Racist, greedy white men hoarded all the profits from slavery, caused the great depression, then implemented welfare programs for poor whites.

Once they were forced to give welfare to Blacks is when they started to hate it.

Then came the lies about Blacks and welfare that Americans believe today:

Generational welfare
Welfare queen
destroying the debt
Lazy fucks
it hurts them
They won't find a job
white peoples taxes paying for welfare
all Blacks on welfare
etc.

All pure, unadulterated. LIES.

Racist white men have been trying to take away welfare since they had to give it to Blacks.

it was perfectly fine when only whites were getting it.

1 in every 3 1/2 blacks uses food stamps. Why are so many so greedy when it comes to what someone else earned?

 

[CFM]

It's not even close you lying bitch. Blacks receive more than double the welfare as their % of the population, hispanics almost double, and whites recieve less than half. Learn basic math you fucking retard.

I used the OP's numbers and did some basic math:

Of the 43 million on food stamps, 25.6% or just over 11 million are black. Blacks make up 12.5% or 40.6 million of the 325 million total population. 11 million of a 40.6 million black population means 27.1% or approximately 1 in every 3 1/2 blacks uses food stamps.

Of the 43 million on food stamps, 17.2% or 7.4 million are Hispanic. Hispanics makes up 17.1% or 55.6 million of the 325 million total population. 7.4 million of a 55.5 million Hispanic population means 13.3% or 1 in every 7 1/2 Hispanics uses food stamps.

Of the 43 million on food stamps, 36.2% or 15.6 million are white. Whites make up 70% or 227.5 million of the 325 million total population. 15.6 million of a 227.5 million white population means 6.9% or only approximately 1 in every 14 1/2 whites uses food stamps.

If 100 of each group was lined up and a count was started, based on statistics, after going through all 100 of each, there would be 27 blacks, 13 - 14 Hispanics, and 7 whites.

 

[CFM]

You have offered no proof of that. You are just shit posting.


White Americans benefited from the welfare program of slavery for many generations and it did not make individuals poorer. One could argue that it was the reason the South remained poorer than the North but that's a different argument than the one you are making.


Again, white Americans benefited from the welfare of New Deal housing programs that were not available to african americans, but that did not lead to a reversal of which demographic held the wealth. It exacerbated it.




LOL, no they don't have an identical experience. Asians started immigrating en masse much sooner, were already established here and had equal incomes with whites when LBJ's programs went into effect.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/06/27/1-demographic-trends-and-economic-well-being/

Those hispanic families that were early settlers in the southwest and were not completely dispossessed by encroaching white settlers, do quite well. There is also the fact that many of the established hispanics now self identify as white, which makes it harder to tease out the truth when comparing the data.

You are a shit poster and if you know the facts that you are just misusing them to manipulate.

Handing someone that doesn't have the skill set to earn as much as they can get by doing nothing and collecting welfare, it is a causative factor. It causes them to have a zero incentive to work and do nothing but stick their hand out while making excuses about someone owing them something.

If someone isn't willing to do for him/herself, I'm willing to let them go without.

 

[CFM]

Spare me, the welfare is the causative factor for the poverty not the other way around, the government check has brought about a sense of entitlement, laziness, and complacency amongst the black and hispanic communities. Furthermore, minorities are eligible for entitlements that whites are not; such as, better access to housing assistance. Moreover, the poverty rate and welfare recipient rate of Asians compared to Hispanics who have a nearly identical American experience.

When people that don't want to work are given an incentive to no work because they're handed more freebies than their skill set will allow them to earn, people like Timshel shouldn't be shocked is the leeches do what they do.