Are you a theist or an atheist?

[BidenPresident]

The aim of the final chapter of the book is just to lay this out as a possible option that people might want to think about. I often describe Why? as a middle way between God and atheism. My atheist friends disagree with this, and tell me it’s just a non-standard form of atheism, but my religious friends tell me it’s just a non-standard form of theism!

https://www.thephilosopher1923.org/post/the-glitter-is-in-everything

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

What is a "theist"? What is an "atheist"? Definitions are necessary before a response.

 

[Cypress]

What is a "theist"? What is an "atheist"? Definitions are necessary before a response.

His definitions are very simplistic:

Are you a believer in the God of traditional Western religion or are you a secular atheist who thinks we just live in a meaningless, purposeless universe?

IMO, when someone has to selectively limit theism to the western tradition of Judeo-Christianity it just means they haven't bothered to put in the effort to learn about world religions more comprehensively.

His definition of atheism is lacking substance as well.

Hard to believe this guy got paid to write a book about a middle way between militant atheism and holy roller dogma, as if he had a deeply original and profound insight about it.

Some of us here have been talking for years about deliberately choosing to not play on either the atheist team or the holy roller team, and seeking a middle way between the two.

 

[BidenPresident]

His definitions are very simplistic:



IMO, when someone has to selectively limit theism to the western tradition of Judeo-Christianity it just means they haven't bothered to put in the effort to learn about world religions more comprehensively.

His definition of atheism is lacking substance as well.

Hard to believe this guy got paid to write a book about a middle way between militant atheism and holy roller dogma, as if he had a deeply original and profound insight.

Some of us here have been talking for years about deliberately choosing to not play on either the atheist team or the holy roller team, and seeking a middle way between the two.

Wow, you're smarter than philosophy professors!!!!!

 

[Cypress]

Wow, you're smarter than philosophy professors!!!!!

You and some others may think this article by Goff is full of deeply original and visionary insights.

It's not. It's basically the same thing me and many other people think about, and express in similar words..

Phillip Goff:
"I am saying there is a purpose that goes beyond humanity. I think it can be rational to live in hope of cosmic purpose, even if it’s unfolding in ways we don’t yet fully understand "

(the cosmos) [may be] underlain by a purposeful organizing principle which might not be comprehensible to our souped up chimpanzee brains.

Deeply original and visionary insights are very rare, even though some people get mad when I point it out.

 

[BidenPresident]

You and some others may think this article by Goff is full of deeply original and visionary insights.

It's not. It's basically the same thing me and many other people think about, and express in similar words..

Phillip Goff:
"I am saying there is a purpose that goes beyond humanity. I think it can be rational to live in hope of cosmic purpose, even if it’s unfolding in ways we don’t yet fully understand "



Deeply original and visionary insights are very rare, even though some people get mad when I point it out.

He is advocating panpsychism.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

His definitions are very simplistic:



IMO, when someone has to selectively limit theism to the western tradition of Judeo-Christianity it just means they haven't bothered to put in the effort to learn about world religions more comprehensively.

His definition of atheism is lacking substance as well.

Hard to believe this guy got paid to write a book about a middle way between militant atheism and holy roller dogma, as if he had a deeply original and profound insight about it.

Some of us here have been talking for years about deliberately choosing to not play on either the atheist team or the holy roller team, and seeking a middle way between the two.

Which is why I have no response, because what I believe doesn't fit in any of those boxes. I'm good with that.

 

[Cypress]

He is advocating panpsychism.

I understand this guy wants to sell books and get interviewed, but the ideas of a universal conciousness or spirit goes all the way back to Hinduism and other traditions, and the idea of a middle way between religious dogma and hard core atheism has been around for centuries. Repackaging old concepts to sell a book is neither deeply original nor visionary. But I admit, the topic could potentially be interesting.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Here is my position on the question:


I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;

I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;

I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;

I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.

(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)

Ask a hundred people on the street with no agenda on this question: "Does that make Frank a theist or an atheist?"...and probably 100 would answer, "Neither."

Most would aver that to be an agnostic opinion.

 

[Cypress]

Which is why I have no response, because what I believe doesn't fit in any of those boxes. I'm good with that.

Labels and pigeonholes are very limiting.

 

[BidenPresident]

I understand this guy wants to sell books and get interviewed, but the ideas of a universal conciousness or spirit goes all the way back to Hinduism and other traditions, and the idea of a middle way between religious dogma and hard core atheism has been around for centuries. Repackaging old concepts to sell a book is neither deeply original nor visionary. But I admit, the topic could potentially be interesting.

buzz off

 

[BidenPresident]

Here is my position on the question:


I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;

I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;

I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;

I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.

(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)

Ask a hundred people on the street with no agenda on this question: "Does that make Frank a theist or an atheist?"...and probably 100 would answer, "Neither."

Most would aver that to be an agnostic opinion.

ok

 

[Cypress]

buzz off

Panpsychism is basically just a fancy word academics made up for a religious idea that's been around for two thousand years.

The fact that western academics aren't directly aware of how they derived (plagiarized) this idea, is because they never bothered to put in the work to learn about Eastern intellectual traditions

Brahman (from Hinduism) is the fundamental reality underlying all objects and experiences. Brahman is explained as pure existence, pure consciousness and pure bliss. All forms of existence presuppose a knowing self. Brahman or pure consciousnessunderlies the knowing self. Consciousness according to the Advaita School, unlike the positions held by other Vedānta schools, is not a property of Brahman but its very nature.

 

[Damocles]

Neither, I am an apatheist.

 

[BidenPresident]

Panpsychism is basically just a fancy word academics made up for a religious idea that's been around for two thousand years.

The fact that western academics aren't directly aware of how they derived (plagiarized) this idea, is because they never bothered to put in the work to learn about Eastern traditions

Not what panpsychism is.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

What is a "theist"? What is an "atheist"? Definitions are necessary before a response.

I think that I know what they mean,
and if my understanding is correct,
I'm an atheist.

Other than handed down hearsay,
there's no evidence of a divine creator.

It's an imagined concept that caught on
before people started to understand
the scientific reasons for things happening.

 

[Cypress]

Not what panpsychism is.

The Stanford University Encyclopedia of Philosophy agrees with me that panpsychism in modern philosophy is an old concept based on ancient eastern traditions.

"Panpsychism is the view that mentality is fundamental and ubiquitous in the natural world. The view has a long and venerable history in philosophical traditions of both East and West, and has recently enjoyed a revival in analytic philosophy."

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/

 

[BidenPresident]

The Stanford University Encyclopedia of Philosophy agrees with me that panpsychism in modern philosophy is an old concept based on ancient eastern traditions.

And?

 

[Cypress]

And?

Just that this Mr. Goff is selling books and doing interviews that aren't based on any deeply original and visionary insights of his own. He is plagiarizing religious ideas that have been around for thousands of years.

Brahman (from Hinduism) is the fundamental reality underlying all objects and experiences. Brahman is explained as pure existence, pure consciousness and pure bliss. All forms of existence presuppose a knowing self. Brahman or pure consciousness underlies the knowing self.

Panpsychism (from modern philosophy): The radical idea that everything has elements of consciousness is reemerging and breathing new life into a cold and mechanical cosmos.

 

[BidenPresident]

Just that this Mr. Goff is selling books and doing interviews that aren't based on any deeply original and visionary insights of his own. He is plagiarizing religious ideas that have been around for thousands of years.

Panpsychism is the idea that physical particles have consciousness.