At What Point?

Cypress said:
Yes it does. It makes the distinction extensively and explicitly. The epistles of Paul go into substantial detail about the ritual law of the Jewish tradition, and why they do not apply to Gentiles. Paul's epistles are at the heart and core of the New Testament.

I doubt it would have been possible for Paul to bring the gospel to gentiles, or have Christianity spread so widely end successfully in the Roman Empire if potential converts were required to follow the laws of Torah and basically become Jews and practice Jewish religious custom.
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But...JESUS...said he was not here to change the law...not one word...not one letter of one word.

So was Jesus lying...or just wrong?
 
Blackwater Lunchbreak said:
like all religions and their texts.

your catholic friend just insists that whatever the ecclestial college of self important butfucks says is the inerrant word of God. that's not better.

the people you target for derision most are the ones who actually encourage the most personal exploration of the texts themselves.

if this were academic you would be on their side.

but since ultiately you seek to hide real chrisitianity with your Masonic colonic cohorts, I forgive you for it.
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I have said many times on this thread and elsewhere that there are very significant things in Protestant theology and practice that are admirable, and I have serious doubts that western democracy and free market capitalism would exist in the way we understand them without the Protestant Reformation.
 
Cypress said:
You wrote that the distinction between Jewish ritual law and eternal divine law was found nowhere in the bible.

Paul is so important to the bible, works attributed to him make up almost half of the New Testament. And Paul was responsible for spreading Christianity to the Roman empire so successfully because he did explain why gentiles are not beholden to the Jewish ritual laws of Torah.
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Once again...Paul disagreeing with Jesus...and you accepting Paul over Jesus.

Why?
 
Yakuda said:
Let's start slowly. What was the claim you made about homosexuality?

For once. I think you responded the way you did just so you could say, "You were wrong". See how predictable you folks are?
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But you are wrong. Oh, wait. That is the truth...and we all know there is nothing that you scorn more than the truth.

Okay, I see your point now.
 
Ross Dolan said:
But...JESUS...said he was not here to change the law...not one word...not one letter of one word.

So was Jesus lying...or just wrong?
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It doesn't have to require lying. That would be an extremely cynical view. Jesus was speaking to Jews, more importantly you don't have to change the letters to interpret it differently.

If one continues reading after that one quote, and goes through the entire sermon on the mount, it's obvious Jesus is reimagining laws of Torah differently than the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Even within the Jewish community of antiquity, the Pharisees and Sadducees couldn't agree on Torah. That didn't mean they were lying. They interpreted it differently.

The actual experts on the Torah - Talmudic scholars - have devoted centuries and oceans of scrolls, ink, parchment, paper in close reading of Torah and interpretation of Torah. And even then Jews can't all agree with each other. Reform Judaism and Orthodox Judaism imagine Torah in extremely different ways.

The people who are the real experts in the Old Testament - Talmudic Jewish scholars - famously wrote that it's up to humans to decide what Torah means, and God should butt out if he shows up to give his opinion. LOL
 
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Cypress said:
It doesn't have to require lying.Jesus was speaking to Jews, more importantly you don't have to change the letters to interpret it differently.
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That's an interesting exegesis.

But if you actually read beyond Matt 5:18 you see the following in the next verse: "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (emphasis added)

That sounds pretty clear.


 
Yakuda said:
Not really. I can do lots of things for or bad for others that I don't love. Loving people is far more difficult especially when they aren't nice or disagree with us. Line using the c word. Is that how you would like me to treat you?
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If you feel it's appropriate.

please do so.

it's just a word.
 
Obtenebrator said:
That's an interesting exegesis.

But if you actually read beyond Matt 5:18 you see the following in the next verse: "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (emphasis added)

That sounds pretty clear.
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and the whole of the law shall be do unto others as you would have them do unto you is also pretty clear.
 
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