Auto bailout is cheap

I agree it's tough to swallow, but what about the alternative? You know the market better than me; wouldn't a GM bankruptcy take us down a few more thousand points...how many trillions is that?

I'd love to see them work stipulations into the bill on management & direction for these companies, but I'm not sure how feasible that is a) in a short timeframe, and b) from a perspective of still keeping these companies private...
 
Onceler said:
I agree it's tough to swallow, but what about the alternative? You know the market better than me; wouldn't a GM bankruptcy take us down a few more thousand points...how many trillions is that?

I'd love to see them work stipulations into the bill on management & direction for these companies, but I'm not sure how feasible that is a) in a short timeframe, and b) from a perspective of still keeping these companies private...
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The stock market is for fools.
 
Lots of choices need to be made on what to keep and what not to keep. On all levels. Several around here have decided not to keep satellite and cable TV. will we need to bail them out too ?
Where does it end? We can't even afford what we have already comitted to .
 
here's how far my turbolib transformation has come.
they should get the 25b and more.
the cons are against it because of the unions, they'll piss 700b to the yatching boys in the hamptons and trillions in Iraq. Let a couple assembly guys need a hand up and it's f them. And our new dems haven't shaken the wuss cyndrome, they are still afraid of looking week to the cons who have zero actual control.
 
Onceler said:
I agree it's tough to swallow, but what about the alternative? You know the market better than me; wouldn't a GM bankruptcy take us down a few more thousand points...how many trillions is that?

I'd love to see them work stipulations into the bill on management & direction for these companies, but I'm not sure how feasible that is a) in a short timeframe, and b) from a perspective of still keeping these companies private...
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It has already taken us down over the past few weeks. The potential job losses (approx... 500k just at Ford and GM) are the big concern. I think for this reason they will get the money. But in my opinion that money should be given with the stipulation that the executives of the companies and the unions should be fired.

I assume by 'private' you mean 'not government owned/run'???

There are plenty of executives sitting over at Toyota, Honda, Nissan that they could raid and bring in to run the Big Three. Give someone else a chance to do so. The biggest problem right now is the healthcare and pension liabilities. They have three retirees for every worker. THAT is what is killing them. Watch for the government to take those over. That is probably the only way the big three will ever be able to compete with Japan.

The "other" option would be to give the money to foreign auto makers that have good business models with the stipulation that they invest that money here in terms of jobs and production. But we both know that would never fly.
 
Topspin said:
here's how far my turbolib transformation has come.
they should get the 25b and more.
the cons are against it because of the unions, they'll piss 700b to the yatching boys in the hamptons and trillions in Iraq. Let a couple assembly guys need a hand up and it's f them. And our new dems haven't shaken the wuss cyndrome, they are still afraid of looking week to the cons who have zero actual control.
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A surprisingly good assessment.
 
Superfreak said:
except that none of it was accurate.
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Of course it's true. Multi-millionaires and billionaires aren't going to let other multi-millionaires go down. That would mean it could happen to them!

But some blue collar coolie? Shit, they're expendable. Just like we'll always have Jose's to send to fight our wars, we'll always have coolies to lay-off, cut benefits from, cut their pay, throw them in the street. That's what they make tents for!

The American Dream - A Tent City On Every Block - Room For Every Coolie!
 
If we are to help the wokers is it cheaper and better in the long run to help them directly or to support the business that will not have a viable market for it's products for a few years and let a little bit trickle down to the workers ?
 
Darla said:
Of course it's true. Multi-millionaires and billionaires aren't going to let other multi-millionaires go down. That would mean it could happen to them!

But some blue collar coolie? Shit, they're expendable. Just like we'll always have Jose's to send to fight our wars, we'll always have coolies to lay-off, cut benefits from, cut their pay, throw them in the street. That's what they make tents for!

The American Dream - A Tent City On Every Block - Room For Every Coolie!
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Again, all of the above is complete nonsense.
 
When did America become the land of "Reward the Failures, aim for the Mediocre, and always keep your hand out for falling cash from the leaders 'on high'."?
 
Damocles said:
When did America become the land of "Reward the Failures, aim for the Mediocre, and always keep your hand out for falling cash from the leaders 'on high'."?
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We just follow our corporate and governmental leaders examples I suppose.
Sheeple.
 
Even the people who are in favor of this bailout say they disagree with giving the automakers a loan.

Its more about salvaging the economy as a whole than about rewarding lousy mgmt
 
Darla said:
Don't worry - Wal-mart is going to donate pup tents! That's some compassionate corporate outreach. All Hail Wal-Mart...Damo has stock!
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Wal mart will survive.

Strange that one of the leaders of imported stuff will become where more and more people shop as the finiancial situation drives them from the more expensive stores.

Almost like a plan or something....
Anyone remember when wally world had the made in USA advertisements ?
 
Onceler said:
Since they wanted to avoid becoming the "Land of the Homeless?"
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Please. This is like saying that the past didn't exist. We've been rewarding and throwing money at problems far longer than just now.

If we squint and pretend the past didn't exist, and that we haven't been giving corporate welfare for decades and decades, and that we haven't expected the federal government to 'fix' everything from bunions to local levees and to be there for us with money at every turn, then you might have a point.
 
There has already been an announcement that there will be thousands laid-off by GM. Mgmt people have been told their salaries will be cut.

Its not going to go well for GM regardless of what happens.
 
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