Basics of Politics; Big Gov vs. Big Gov Corruption

Rose Captain said:
Yes and no. When our constitution is changed, it's not done by the people. It'd done by elected representatives of the country's power centers.
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We The People elect a voice. The voice carries out what we want............At least that is the way it works when America actually cares and thinks about Politics and doesn't hate politics so much that they let the elected official do terrible things, just as long as they do the select few things you actually care about. When the people follow politics, they notice this abuse of power. Most Americans don't know a thing about what's going on in Congress.
 
Anti-Party said:
We The People elect a voice. The voice carries out what we want............At least that is the way it works when America actually cares and thinks about Politics and doesn't hate politics so much that they let the elected official do terrible things, just as long as they do the select few things you actually care about. When the people follow politics, they notice this abuse of power. Most Americans don't know a thing about what's going on in Congress.
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I now direct you to Thomas Fergison's Investment Theory of Party Competition. Anti, We the People do not elect representatives on the national level. And even if we did, they wouldn't be accountable to our interests.

Such is the nature of a polyarchy. I'd like to ask you a question: If We the People elect representatives, why is policy overwhelmingly geared towards the interests of corporations and members of the ruling class?
 
Classic Liberal said:
But I don’t support the idea of BIG government no matter what the population and you’ve yet to prove that Norway’s and Denmark’s governments aren’t “BIG corruption.” Would you like to try again?
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The governments of Denmark and Finland share first place in 'least corruption'. Incidentally, both countries are also highly taxed and have large welfare states.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ost-and-least-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/

Norway shares seventh place with Australia. The United States comes in nineteenth place. Meanwhile, Somalia, which has practically no government at all, ranks last.

So much for your theory that big government=big corruption. Bad leaders, not big government, is the source of corruption.
 
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Rationalist said:
The governments of Denmark and Finland share first place in 'least corruption'. Incidentally, both countries are also highly taxed and have large welfare states.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ost-and-least-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/

Norway shares seventh place with Australia. The United States comes in nineteenth place. Meanwhile, Somalia, which has practically no government at all, ranks last.

So much for your theory that big government=big corruption. Bad leaders, not big government, is the source of corruption.
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The shows I have seen on these cultures, they are minimalist. They live well, but simply.
 
Rose Captain said:
I now direct you to Thomas Fergison's Investment Theory of Party Competition. Anti, We the People do not elect representatives on the national level. And even if we did, they wouldn't be accountable to our interests.

Such is the nature of a polyarchy. I'd like to ask you a question: If We the People elect representatives, why is policy overwhelmingly geared towards the interests of corporations and members of the ruling class?
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To answer that question; The only people who are interested in politics are people with something to gain or lose. The people have been too busy paying too much money for Coffee and going to work and raising kids to pay attention to politics.

Your response is directly responded to my thread though. The party that hates the power of Government is the ones who sign off on excessive power, and I don't know if it's to prove a point, or if they are so ignorant and blind in their party to not notice it. The Patriot Act is getting a lot of recoil today, yet didn't when it was put in place. Is this political Sabotage and was it put in place only to make an issue of it later if needed?

And If we don't elect the officials then tell me how they get into position. The people elect the Government. If there are flaws in the system, then so be it, but you can't change the fact that the people are SUPPOSED to elect the government.

A big problem is the people who recognize problems, adapt to them, then move on....
 
Rationalist said:
There is a reason there are no libertarian governments in the world today. Anyone want to take a stab?
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Oh snap, he went there!

You are fully correct. Every party should have a Libertarian perspective in their idea's of what is correct for Government ruling. But if you watch the news you will see that nearly EVERY Country has a select group who hates Government and it's generally called "Rebels".............."A group fighting the Government powers"............which ironically will only be replaced with "New Government powers"..........
 
Anti-Party said:
Anti-Government groups are generally called "rebels". They are the first to use violence to stop big government. Libertarians are America's rebels.
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Any yet... The first thing the American Colonial Rebels did was form a government. Surprise! Not so Ant-Government after all. But, I understand revisionist history is rampant in some circles.

The people that are anti-government are really called Anarchists.
 
Red Mule said:
Any yet... The first thing the American Colonial Rebels did was form a government. Surprise! Not so Ant-Government after all. But, I understand revisionist history is rampant in some circles.

The people that are anti-government are really called Anarchists.
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Yep, the President in charge during the writing of the 2A was a Federalist, as opposed to anti-Federalist.
 
Red Mule said:
Any yet... The first thing the American Colonial Rebels did was form a government. Surprise! Not so Ant-Government after all. But, I understand revisionist history is rampant in some circles.

The people that are anti-government are really called Anarchists.
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Note; You can believe in less Federal power and not be Anarchists.

But I agree that the people have always needed a Governing force to ensure a lack of chaos whether it be Religion or Government. Even with the two, we have seen the news today and the lack of order and maturity...

But even more funny is the select individuals who keep screaming, "We need more guns and less background checks to ensure we don't have bad guys with guns".......It's simply ignorance and a lack of education or awareness even.
 
Anti-Party said:
Anti-Government groups are generally called "rebels". They are the first to use violence to stop big government. Libertarians are America's rebels.
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I wouldn't go that far. Most libertarians I know don't want to overthrow the government; the revolution they seek is at the ballot box.

That said, libertarians will never be in power in the US. People like big government...hell, probably even most libertarians like big government without realizing it.
 
Anti-Party said:
And the very same people said that the Constitution could change as needed to meet the peoples needs. They never said, "Here it is, never change it or adapt it", they said the opposite. The people control this Country..........THE PEOPLE
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Then change it, already.

Rose Captain said:
The problem is that the 'libertarian' idea of liberty includes brutal class suppression. They're great when it comes to dealing with authority in government, but when it comes to everything else, they cause tons of harm.

So I'd just call them 'selective libertarians'.
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Suppression by whom, exactly?
 
Rose Captain said:
The same could be said about you folks. Because liberalism has produced great results. :rolleyes:
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both times the republicans crashed the economy with their historically failed ideas the Democrats fixed the mess.

the Middle is NOT always where the facts are.

being in the middle is not some automatic badge of courage.

FOLLOW THE FACTS
 
Anti-Party said:
I find it ironic that this person calls me a 3rd Grader while also calling me a "goober" along with a list of "nuh-uhs"

Maybe it's time you did a little homework there kiddo and learned what your party really fights for.
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What ”PARTY” would that be Goober? I don’t do political parties. I fucking hate political parties. I’m an individualist Goober.

Ask your cult director "do we really fight for the right to own Apache's with no background checks?"
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It’s become perfectly apparent Goober that BIG government background checks are rampant. Your G. W. Bush UN-Patriot Act is now on steroids administered by the Chicago Crook Obama. Seems your BIG fucking government has gathered up all the information they can get their unconstitutional hand on and have the ability to know how many times you take a shit Goober. How much more ”background” would satisfy your stupid authoritarian ass?

And here is this, I did a little homework for you "McVeigh, a militia movement sympathizer and Gulf War veteran, sought revenge against the federal government for their handling of the Waco Siege, "
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Which “libertarian” do you know Goober that would volunteer for the unconstitutional Gulf War?” Libertarians, (small l), believe in minding their own business, staying out of other folks wars and know that the only wars that are ”constitutional” are the wars actually declared by the Congress and the ones started by Presidents are unconstitutional. Again Goober you haven’t a fucking clue what you’re talking about.

Militia movement sympathizer who is angry at the Federal Government? Sounds pretty Libertarian to me.
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That’s because you’re a fucking third grade idiot Goober and haven’t a clue what real libertarianism actually is.
 
Rose Captain said:
The problem is that the 'libertarian' idea of liberty includes brutal class suppression.
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But bribing the vote with socialist programs that eliminate all incentive for the poor and minorities to educate themselves and excite and inspire their personal ambitions and become self-reliant isn’t a brutal class suppression of “libertarian” promotion. That's what y’all fucking communist leftist socialist bastards do. That’s how you have evolved your system of slavery from the whip and the Gulag to the bribery.
 
evince said:
both times the republicans crashed the economy with their historically failed ideas the Democrats fixed the mess.

the Middle is NOT always where the facts are.

being in the middle is not some automatic badge of courage.

FOLLOW THE FACTS
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Here’s some FACTS for your fucking leftist dumb ass to follow!!!!
 
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