Can a modern day "liberal" also be a "patriot"?

I must apoligize for entering this discussion so late, but I just had to comment on the OP.

Right said:
I think not.

A modern day liberal, or progressive, seeks to creatively interpret the Constitution. In truth they ignore it, usurp it, despise it. A patriot, on the other hand, is someone who reveres the Constitution, understands its original intent and meaning, and seeks to apply it to solving modern problems.

The meaning of liberalism has changed throughout US history. During the revolutionary period a liberal was someone who was against the monarchy and fought for a republican form of government. They recognized that government was a necessary evil, and that in order to minimize the evil they also had to limit the powers of the government. So they created a federal system with very limited powers and left the rest to the states, or to the people.

In the modern era, a liberal is someone who sees the Constitution as outdated. They want the federal government to have broad, unrestricted power. This power approaches that of a monarchy, of which the patriot, both then and now, fights against.
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Your broad sweeping brush about what you describe as liberalism; as though all those who are not on the radical right could never be true patriots, is really rather funny when a new House of Lords is staring you right in the face.
 
jet57 said:
I must apoligize for entering this discussion so late, but I just had to comment on the OP.



Your broad sweeping brush about what you describe as liberalism; as though all those who are not on the radical right could never be true patriots, is really rather funny when a new House of Lords is staring you right in the face.
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Can someone translate this? :rofl2:
 
Jarod said:
Benedict Arnold was a founding father... would you call him a patriot?
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I think it is quite a stretch to claim Benedict was a founding father. Did he sign the Declaration of Independence? Did he have anything to do with the Constitution?

He was merely a General who turned against the fledgling nation in the middle of their fight for independence. Calling him a founder requires the willing suspension of common sense and intelligence; something you do quite often.
 
Right said:
He wasn't a signer to the Declaration. After the war began he was a mere captain, nothing more. And he was a traitor well before the Constitution was written.

Are all lawyers as uneducated as you about American history?
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Apparently THIS on is; not to mention unintelligent.
 
So back to the OP. Modern liberals love centralized power and big FedGovCo. The Founders, patriots, fought against a huge centralized power, and penned a Document to created a very limited one, leaving broad powers to the states and to the people. Because of this, there is absolutely no way that a liberal in contemporary times can be a patriot.
 
Truth Detector said:
I think it is quite a stretch to claim Benedict was a founding father. Did he sign the Declaration of Independence? Did he have anything to do with the Constitution?

He was merely a General who turned against the fledgling nation in the middle of their fight for independence. Calling him a founder requires the willing suspension of common sense and intelligence; something you do quite often.
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He wasn't even a general when he defected. As I recall he was a mere captain. I think the Brits made him a general for doing so.
 
Right said:
So back to the OP. Modern liberals love centralized power and big FedGovCo. The Founders, patriots, fought against a huge centralized power, and penned a Document to created a very limited one, leaving broad powers to the states and to the people. Because of this, there is absolutely no way that a liberal in contemporary times can be a patriot.
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The founders fought against absolutism and exclusion in government. Then we turned around and centralized our government at the federal and state levels.
 
jet57 said:
The founders fought against absolutism and exclusion in government. Then we turned around and centralized our government at the federal and state levels.
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You are talking to a laughing jackass in laughing jackboots.
 
The OP makes some presumptions which are not really valid. America has changed a great deal from the days of our founding fathers. And all along the way, there were patriots who loved their country - as it was - as it had evolved - from the late 18th century to whatever place in time those patriots found themselves. The patriots who bravely fought and died in the Mexican War or the Civil War were fighting and dying for a country that was different than it had been in 1776. The patriots who fought and died in the First World War were fighting and dying for a country that was markedly different than it had been a half a century earlier. That same statement can be made about patriots in every war up to and including Afghanistan. One does not need to only love the country we once were, and only dream of a return to that state of development to be a patriot. I love the USA. I served my country all around the globe for a long time. I am a liberal. I most certainly am a patriot.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
See above responses.
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The point is that the supreme court has ruled in err. I will not warp my own mind to accommodate their mistakes.
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Who gives a fuck what your mind is warped about? As the chronology of the posts shows, you and your like minded idiots kept blowing smoke that the law was illegal...but CONGRESS, THE SENATE AND THE SCOTUS say differently via the electoral, judicial and congressional process.

You were wrong.

You don't like it, vote to get it changed....that's the American way. But PLEASE tell us all how the laughable "alternatives" offered by the GOP makes any marketable change from the status quo that existed previously to the passing of the ACA. I'll wait.
 
Right said:
ftfy
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Ahh, the old alter the guy's post to say what you want trick. Apparently your grasp of American history and the founding documents is as weak as your inability to discuss anything with even a modicom of intellect.

They tell me you're a Troll; I guess they're right.
 
iolo said:
You'll find this particular joke wears very thin! :)
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Yeah, I'm sure it does; but I had to say it. The funnier thing is, I had hoped to find a conservative opponent here that could mount and effective and reasonable argument, but I guess that's like trying to chase the pot at the end of the rainbow.
 
jet57 said:
Ahh, the old alter the guy's post to say what you want trick. Apparently your grasp of American history and the founding documents is as weak as your inability to discuss anything with even a modicom of intellect.

They tell me you're a Troll; I guess they're right.
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he's WAY worse than any troll. The sick shit he has done by taking his online arguments into the real world would make your hair curl.
 
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