Change???

I don't recall ever claiming to be Christian. I am a Spiritualist.

Don't you believe in the Abrahamic god?

I seem to recall something about him, a shower and financial advice?
 
No, this is how you perceive it to have been, because you have an admitted bigotry toward the South. The people's attitudes at the time, were overwhelmingly racist, and overwhelmingly opposed to freedom and equality for blacks. This was the case in the North, South, East, West, and in between. It was pretty much a universal sentiment, as you indicated when you admitted that no politician would run on the 'abolition' issue, because it would have amounted to political suicide.
They were overwhelmingly racist, which is why they believed in freedom for blacks, but not equality. No one was willing to risk disunion, although ackwardly enough the GOP ran the more openly radical Freemont before it ran Lincoln...

The "it's fucking legal" argument was the result of the United States Supreme Court rulings and actions of Congress up until (and in some cases after) the Civil War. It is patently unfair to hold people accountable for wrongdoing, when they were obeying the laws of the land at the time. Had the US adopted abolition, and the South balked and refused to accept it, and THEN the war was fought, you may have a valid point and argument, but the record is clear, that didn't happen.
You mean the one that was 4 years old when the war broke out? And people who choose to live an immoral live will find torment whether they followed the laws or not. Are all laws moral? And Can you explain why the 13th-15th Amendments were passed? No, not if you base the answer off of your lies. The fact is, the South balked at the idea of free Western Land, which is even more outrageous than if there was an attempt to abolish slavery outright.



Again, this is how you WISH it had been. The North's goal, according to Lincoln, was to preserve the Union, regardless of the issue of Slavery. As we can clearly see through the historical record of racial disharmony, in both the North and South after the Emancipation, people didn't "accept" a damn thing, and the majority of America was still devoutly racist, and very few people held a view that blacks were equal to whites.
The record shows that one side believed in freedom and the other did not. I think there would be very little concern about racism and civil equality today if there had not been incidents such as slavery and Indian massacres. Furthermore, if I had my wish, the South would have been permanently excluded from the Union, but there you have it...



I think you need to re-read what I posted. The North was anything BUT cordial toward black people. There was nothing "unavoidable" about the incidents I posted, it was brutal and deplorable racist violence, perpetrated on black people because they were black. Lynchings took place in the North, just as they did in the South, there was no "Northern view" as you described.

The North also didn't "overcome" anything, the racial disharmony continued through the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and into the 90's. Places like Detroit, Cleveland, Watts, Boston, Harlem... none of which are located in the South. Perhaps their problem is the same as yours, they don't think they are responsible for slavery or racism, and they appease any guilt for it by blaming it all on the South? I don't know the answer, I just know what has happened in history, and it doesn't appear the North is immune to racist sentiment toward black people any more than the South.
My last point applies to this. I think people would accept ethnic enclaves such as exist in New York if race hadn't been exacerbated by slavery, mass murder, and legislated segregation. Two of these can specifically be laid on the hands of the South.



What we do, is celebrate our heritage. By your argument, we shouldn't put people like Lincoln, Madison, Jefferson, Jackson, and Washington, on American currency, we shouldn't celebrate their birthdays, or even the 4th of July, because this entire nation was founded (and in most cases, built) on the backs of slave labor. If people in the South held reenactments of slave auctions, or tied black men to trees and beat them to 'celebrate' their heritage, I would agree with you. What they celebrate is the defiant spirit of a region that stood up to what amounted to federal tyranny. You see, the reason you don't like the old flag or reenactments, is because you view the Civil War as being fought over the issue of human enslavement, and it wasn't. I can accept these reenactments as what they are, and the 'stars and bars' as an honorary symbol for those who fought and died under her... which incidentally, included a considerable number of black men.
There are plenty of Founders that could be celebrated in their stead such as Adams, Hamilton and Jay. Since the 4th represents a declaration of freedom more than it does anything else (the war had been going on since 1775), I see no reason to attack it. Furthermore, the war could never have happened without a secession, and secession only occured as a result of slavery. Finally, many US soldiers died i battle against that damned flag - it is not patriotic to celebrate the deaths of US troops, and from what I hear, you put a great deal of stock in supporting them.



What you choose to do is up to you, and what I choose to do is up to me. I could just as easily claim prejudice toward you for your lineage of slave condoning and racism among the groups you listed, but I am not bigoted like you. I understand that when people celebrate their heritage, they are not endorsing or supporting the insidious elements of the past, which are most likely the case with ANY lineage.
As I said, I don't really give a damn about my ancestry, save for the ones who came over here to the US and adopted a new identity. I have rarely engaged in the celebration of any of them, while immersing myself in the celebration of the US.


I heard there were a few black people moving into your neighborhood, looking to take your jobs... why don't you run along and shoot some of them?
Such an incident would not effect my retention on the Air National Guard, nor my enrollment in school. The labor pool has no effect on me at present.
 
No, this is how you perceive it to have been, because you have an admitted bigotry toward the South. The people's attitudes at the time, were overwhelmingly racist, and overwhelmingly opposed to freedom and equality for blacks. This was the case in the North, South, East, West, and in between. It was pretty much a universal sentiment, as you indicated when you admitted that no politician would run on the 'abolition' issue, because it would have amounted to political suicide.

The "it's fucking legal" argument was the result of the United States Supreme Court rulings and actions of Congress up until (and in some cases after) the Civil War. It is patently unfair to hold people accountable for wrongdoing, when they were obeying the laws of the land at the time. Had the US adopted abolition, and the South balked and refused to accept it, and THEN the war was fought, you may have a valid point and argument, but the record is clear, that didn't happen.



Again, this is how you WISH it had been. The North's goal, according to Lincoln, was to preserve the Union, regardless of the issue of Slavery. As we can clearly see through the historical record of racial disharmony, in both the North and South after the Emancipation, people didn't "accept" a damn thing, and the majority of America was still devoutly racist, and very few people held a view that blacks were equal to whites.



I think you need to re-read what I posted. The North was anything BUT cordial toward black people. There was nothing "unavoidable" about the incidents I posted, it was brutal and deplorable racist violence, perpetrated on black people because they were black. Lynchings took place in the North, just as they did in the South, there was no "Northern view" as you described.

The North also didn't "overcome" anything, the racial disharmony continued through the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and into the 90's. Places like Detroit, Cleveland, Watts, Boston, Harlem... none of which are located in the South. Perhaps their problem is the same as yours, they don't think they are responsible for slavery or racism, and they appease any guilt for it by blaming it all on the South? I don't know the answer, I just know what has happened in history, and it doesn't appear the North is immune to racist sentiment toward black people any more than the South.



What we do, is celebrate our heritage. By your argument, we shouldn't put people like Lincoln, Madison, Jefferson, Jackson, and Washington, on American currency, we shouldn't celebrate their birthdays, or even the 4th of July, because this entire nation was founded (and in most cases, built) on the backs of slave labor. If people in the South held reenactments of slave auctions, or tied black men to trees and beat them to 'celebrate' their heritage, I would agree with you. What they celebrate is the defiant spirit of a region that stood up to what amounted to federal tyranny. You see, the reason you don't like the old flag or reenactments, is because you view the Civil War as being fought over the issue of human enslavement, and it wasn't. I can accept these reenactments as what they are, and the 'stars and bars' as an honorary symbol for those who fought and died under her... which incidentally, included a considerable number of black men.



What you choose to do is up to you, and what I choose to do is up to me. I could just as easily claim prejudice toward you for your lineage of slave condoning and racism among the groups you listed, but I am not bigoted like you. I understand that when people celebrate their heritage, they are not endorsing or supporting the insidious elements of the past, which are most likely the case with ANY lineage.



I heard there were a few black people moving into your neighborhood, looking to take your jobs... why don't you run along and shoot some of them?
The ONLY thing I have to say about this whole thread is that the removal and murder of Jews was legal in Germany. Their law said it was OK. Using your logic there should have never been any "crimes against humanity" for the final solution. Guards should have never been prosecuted for conducting the attrocities in Dachau, Bergen Belsen and Auschwitz. The fact that it was "legal" did not make it correct.
 
The ONLY thing I have to say about this whole thread is that the removal and murder of Jews was legal in Germany. Their law said it was OK. Using your logic there should have never been any "crimes against humanity" for the final solution. Guards should have never been prosecuted for conducting the attrocities in Dachau, Bergen Belsen and Auschwitz. The fact that it was "legal" did not make it correct.


You took one line of what I posted, and formed a contrasting opinion based on an analogy that doesn't compare or relate. Germany did not have a Civil War over the extermination of Jews, they weren't even aware of what was going on, and some people will deny the holocaust happened to this day. Genocide is an issue the entire civilized world was opposed to, Slavery was an issue the majority of the world (at that time) practiced, supported and condoned. To try and draw some moral comparison between Slavery and Genocide is beyond pathetic and stupid, and shows just how low you will go to try and make a bigoted judgmental point.

No one is arguing that slavery was correct, that has never been a subject of this debate from my standpoint, although I seem to keep getting this point thrown in my face, as if I am arguing FOR slavery! I am only pointing out the context of the laws and social views of the time, they were what they were, and we can't retrospectively change them to make people guilty of something we now oppose. By your logic, we can seek the death penalty for everyone who has ever had an abortion, if we outlaw abortion some day.
 
You took one line of what I posted, and formed a contrasting opinion based on an analogy that doesn't compare or relate. Germany did not have a Civil War over the extermination of Jews, they weren't even aware of what was going on, and some people will deny the holocaust happened to this day. Genocide is an issue the entire civilized world was opposed to, Slavery was an issue the majority of the world (at that time) practiced, supported and condoned. To try and draw some moral comparison between Slavery and Genocide is beyond pathetic and stupid, and shows just how low you will go to try and make a bigoted judgmental point.

No one is arguing that slavery was correct, that has never been a subject of this debate from my standpoint, although I seem to keep getting this point thrown in my face, as if I am arguing FOR slavery! I am only pointing out the context of the laws and social views of the time, they were what they were, and we can't retrospectively change them to make people guilty of something we now oppose. By your logic, we can seek the death penalty for everyone who has ever had an abortion, if we outlaw abortion some day.

All three issues are equally reprehensable, and slavery was opposed by people at the time - the American North. Also, Great Britain, which had outlawed slavery, thus preventing it from being able to support the South...
 
They were overwhelmingly racist, which is why they believed in freedom for blacks, but not equality. No one was willing to risk disunion, although ackwardly enough the GOP ran the more openly radical Freemont before it ran Lincoln...

And why didn't Freemont win, if the VAST MAJORITY of America wanted to free the slaves? Seems like it would have been a landslide, if the view was as you have described. The truth is, there was an Abolitionist movement, it had been gaining popularity among the elite intellectuals for the previous 20 years, but it was still a radical idea for the time, and most Americans did not support it. Those who saw the moral ethics of it, and favored emancipation, only did so on the condition we ship them off to Central America, Algeria, or Monrovia.

You mean the one that was 4 years old when the war broke out? And people who choose to live an immoral live will find torment whether they followed the laws or not. Are all laws moral? And Can you explain why the 13th-15th Amendments were passed? No, not if you base the answer off of your lies. The fact is, the South balked at the idea of free Western Land, which is even more outrageous than if there was an attempt to abolish slavery outright.

There was no abolition of slavery in the US, 4 years before the war broke out. There was no immorality in owning a slave in 1860 America, it was no different than owning a horse or a mule. We are not debating the morality of slavery, or the morality of the laws on slavery, how many times do we need to make that point clear?

The 13th-15th Amendments were passed AFTER the Civil war, had "Slavery" been such a popular issue among the people, these would have been passed BEFORE the war. The South balked at the audacity of the federal government dictating what states could or couldn't do, in contradiction to the Constitution, which did not grant that right to the federal government.

The record shows that one side believed in freedom and the other did not. I think there would be very little concern about racism and civil equality today if there had not been incidents such as slavery and Indian massacres. Furthermore, if I had my wish, the South would have been permanently excluded from the Union, but there you have it...

The record shows no such thing. It shows the North was just as racist as the South, and it shows the South was interested in maintaining control of 4 billion dollars worth of their own property and not allowing the government to take it away without compensation. Both sides believed in freedom, but not for the black man. Freedom without equality, is no freedom at all.

What your pea-brain thinks might have happened, IF... makes no difference to anything, because it is wholly irrelevant. We did have slavery, the North condoned it and in some cases, practiced it, but did nothing to abolish it until after the Civil War. We did have massacres of Native Americans, and we are just now getting around to realizing the injustices perpetrated on them. Perhaps one of the reason America has a hard time righting the wrongs, is because of attitudes like yours, which try to pass off blame and guilt, instead of accepting responsibility for it?

My last point applies to this. I think people would accept ethnic enclaves such as exist in New York if race hadn't been exacerbated by slavery, mass murder, and legislated segregation. Two of these can specifically be laid on the hands of the South.

......So you favor "non-legislated" segregation? Nothing can be "laid on" the South! You want to find blame, go look in your fucking mirror! YOU are to blame! YOU and people like you, who don't have the moral courage to accept responsibility for what YOUR country has done!


There are plenty of Founders that could be celebrated in their stead such as Adams, Hamilton and Jay. Since the 4th represents a declaration of freedom more than it does anything else (the war had been going on since 1775), I see no reason to attack it. Furthermore, the war could never have happened without a secession, and secession only occured as a result of slavery. Finally, many US soldiers died i battle against that damned flag - it is not patriotic to celebrate the deaths of US troops, and from what I hear, you put a great deal of stock in supporting them.

Succession happened as a result of the federal government violating it's own Constitution. The 4th doesn't "represent" anything, it is a goddamn right in the Bill of Goddamn Rights, or do you NOT understand that concept?

Many Confederate soldiers also died under the flag of the Confederacy, and they were Americans too. I don't celebrate the deaths of US troops, or any troops, or any human beings for that matter. I don't know where the fuck you came up with that hair-brain thought... do they actually let people this stupid into military service these days?

As I said, I don't really give a damn about my ancestry, save for the ones who came over here to the US and adopted a new identity. I have rarely engaged in the celebration of any of them, while immersing myself in the celebration of the US.

Well, it is fine if you don't have any ancestry to be proud of. But many other Americans do, and some of them really get into it and enjoy it. Do you think we live in your dictatorship, and aren't allowed to pay tribute to anything you don't personally like? I got news for you, fuck off.


Such an incident would not effect my retention on the Air National Guard, nor my enrollment in school. The labor pool has no effect on me at present.

Well, yeah... I think if you went out shooting blacks and burning black neighborhoods like your Northern ancestors once did, the ANG would frown upon that.
 
All three issues are equally reprehensable, and slavery was opposed by people at the time - the American North. Also, Great Britain, which had outlawed slavery, thus preventing it from being able to support the South...


Yes they are reprehensible, again, I am not debating the morality of the issue. You continue to want to attempt to make this connection with my argument, and it is unfair and inaccurate. Some people did oppose slavery, Britain (who had little use for slaves) had outlawed slavery, but slavery was still prevalent around the globe, and it was still legal and supported by the US Congress and the Supreme Court of the United States, and southern plantations still owned over 4 billion dollars worth of slaves.

The "Issue" was not "Slavery!" At that time in US history, the issue of slavery was virtually ignored. Some favored it, some opposed it, some were indifferent. In America, in 1860, it was not a popular political position to be in favor of abolition, and it had nothing to do with fearing disunion, it had to do with politics and remaining in power.
 
When the US was formed it supported slavery, as did we once. The 'consensus opinion' of the then modern world changed. The South was just a little slow in catching on to this opinion, but the worm had turned. The resistence of the South was really futile but seems to have seeded its modern reputation.

Which is to a degree unfair. We shouldn't harangue modern southerners for the actions of their ancestors, tar them with the same brush, for actions we ourselves committed only a few scant years before.

Not often I stick up for Dixie....
 
Last edited:
When do we draw a line under the African slave trade, and move forward?

Should we English bemoan the slaves taken by the Vikings? Should this tar our relationship with modern Scandanavians?
 
When do we draw a line under the African slave trade, and move forward?

Should we English bemoan the slaves taken by the Vikings? Should this tar our relationship with modern Scandanavians?
You should tell them they have to voice an official governmental apology and pay y'all reparations.
 
You should tell them they have to voice an official governmental apology and pay y'all reparations.

We'll take reparations in busty blondes and all is forgiven.
 
You should tell them they have to voice an official governmental apology and pay y'all reparations.

We'll take reparations in busty blondes and all is forgiven.
British women think British men are boring. How in the world are you going to get a Nordic Blonde woman to think you are not? Dazzel her with your pearly white tooth? :lmao:
 
British women think British men are boring.

Yes, but they mean 'boring' as in to bore a hole. And they love that!

How in the world are you going to get a Nordic Blonde woman to think you are not? Dazzel her with your pearly white tooth?

No, just pound her with my enormous cock. And they love that!
 
British women think British men are boring.

Yes, but they mean 'boring' as in to bore a hole. And they love that!

How in the world are you going to get a Nordic Blonde woman to think you are not? Dazzel her with your pearly white tooth?

No, just pound her with my enormous cock. And they love that!
They like to be hit continuously by giant roosters? British women are kinky!
 
They like to be hit continuously by giant roosters? British women are kinky!

Any breed of poultry will do.

Next time you are over, buy a chicken from a butcher's and slap the nearest woman about the face with it.

They love it! You will be in like Flynn... Honest Gov'ner!
 
They use the metric system, they can CALL anything enormous in Europe.

No we don't. We measure in feet, thank you very much!
 
Back
Top