Christie: (Illegal) Immigrants are not criminals

Socrtease said:
Ok after looking at the statute posted I talked to the lawyer in our office that has just started doing immigration cases and he has clarified the law for me. It is true that there are federal charges that CAN be brought for first time undocumented entry. HOWEVER, the US government would be required to appoint attorneys for EVERY first time offender, the hearings would have to be before the Federal Magistrate. The standard of proof would be beyond a reasonable doubt and the process would take MUCH longer. For a first time undocumented entry in the US the government seeks civil remedies ONLY. They ask for and most people agree to, voluntary return. Before they go they are told that a second entry can be prosecuted as a felony. The money that would be spent to prosecute these people would be tremendous so the Government takes the cheaper way out for first timers
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And second timers.... And third timers... And fourth timers... And drug dealers...
 
Damocles said:
And second timers.... And third timers... And fourth timers... And drug dealers...
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Damo Status Offenders are one of the largest population in Federal prison. We house more people in our prison based on immigration status than ever before. We are NOT soft of repeat offenders.

The number of immigration offenders serving federal prison sentences increased almost ninefold between 1985 and 2000– from 1,593 to 13,676 adult men and women—more than twice the rate of increase for the entire federal prison population
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http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/iofc00pr.htm
 
Socrtease said:
Damo Status Offenders are one of the largest population in Federal prison. We house more people in our prison based on immigration status than ever before. We are NOT soft of repeat offenders.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/iofc00pr.htm
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Yeah, but people like Bill Ritter (currently governor of CO, used to be DA) give them plea agreements to keep them in the US. One was a heroine dealer who pled to "Agricultural Trespass" (a felony of no moral turpitude, this allows them to stay), later the guy fled his parole and raped a child in California. Unfortunately the kid he raped had an illegal immigrant as a mother who was afraid to take it to court, the guy has since disappeared and is currently walking a free man.
 
Damocles said:
Yeah, but people like Bill Ritter (currently governor of CO, used to be DA) give them plea agreements to keep them in the US. One was a heroine dealer who pled to "Agricultural Trespass" (a felony of no moral turpitude, this allows them to stay), later the guy fled his parole and raped a child in California.
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There are ALWAYS stories about the one that got away or whatever, but that does not negate the fact that you and I pay a shite load of money to keep status offenders behind bars. We pay for their upkeep cause of who they are not any actual crime against anyone.
 
In vernacular, "crime" can mean misdemeanors (although misdemeanors usually aren't described that way), or any civil or criminal infraction, or even things that aren't in laws.

In legal terms crime means a felony. The legal term is more accurate, but if you people want to keep knocking yourselves over the head for the sake of semantics...
 
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Socrtease said:
There are ALWAYS stories about the one that got away or whatever, but that does not negate the fact that you and I pay a shite load of money to keep status offenders behind bars. We pay for their upkeep cause of who they are not any actual crime against anyone.
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How the hell are we supposed to know whenever people turn into monsters like that anyway? There's no statistical recividism connection between heroin and raping a child.
 
Socrtease said:
There are ALWAYS stories about the one that got away or whatever, but that does not negate the fact that you and I pay a shite load of money to keep status offenders behind bars. We pay for their upkeep cause of who they are not any actual crime against anyone.
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There isn't "one story" this happened with hundreds of illegal immigrants. It was their policy to find ways to keep them here when he was DA.
 
Watermark said:
How the hell are we supposed to know whenever people turn into monsters like that anyway? There's no statistical recividism connection between heroin and raping a child.
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There is however a moral turpitude clause, that had he been convicted of that crime he would serve time, then be deported. Bill gave him that plea with the direct purpose of keeping him in the country.
 
Do you know how over inclusive the moral turpitude standard is? If you shop lift a loaf of bread worth 2 bucks you get deported. If you are 18 and have consentual sex with a girl that is 17 in a state with an age of consent that is 18 you get deported. If you wife and you get in an argument about the guy she is sleeping with and she goes to call HIM on the phone and you pull the phone out of the wall it is a crime of domestic violence and you can be deported. BUT if you drive drunk and luckily don't kill anyone then you won't be deported. Hell they won't even question you about it. So the fact that your DA let people plead to crimes that would keep them from being deported and in most cases leave children back in the US for you and I to support is admirable.
 
Socrtease said:
Do you know how over inclusive the moral turpitude standard is? If you shop lift a loaf of bread worth 2 bucks you get deported. If you are 18 and have consentual sex with a girl that is 17 in a state with an age of consent that is 18 you get deported. If you wife and you get in an argument about the guy she is sleeping with and she goes to call HIM on the phone and you pull the phone out of the wall it is a crime of domestic violence and you can be deported. BUT if you drive drunk and luckily don't kill anyone then you won't be deported. Hell they won't even question you about it. So the fact that your DA let people plead to crimes that would keep them from being deported and in most cases leave children back in the US for you and I to support is admirable.
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Getting caught with dealable amounts of Heroine should meet that standard.

So should many of the crimes committed. One was a wife beater.

The only reason he got elected was because of the whole "How did he get the info" angle on Beauprez, well that and he ran against Beauprez.

There were hundreds that got this deal. There is a reason they no longer offer it.
 
From TinTards link:

This part governs solely the practice of patent, trademark, and other law before the United States Patent and Trademark Office.



Again, you guys are being morons, and arguing symantecs, as if there's only one possible meaning for every word.Nothing in this part shall be construed to preempt the authority of each State to regulate the practice of law, except to the extent necessary for the United States Patent and Trademark Office to accomplish its Federal objectives. Unless otherwise clear from the context, the following definitions apply to this part:

Attorney or lawyer means an individual who is a member in good standing of the highest court of any State, including an individual who is in good standing of the highest court of one State and under an order of any court or Federal agency suspending, enjoining, restraining, disbarring or otherwise restricting the attorney from practice before the bar of another State or Federal agency. A non-lawyer means a person or entity who is not an attorney or lawyer. Belief or believes means that the person involved actually supposed the fact in question to be true. A person's belief may be inferred from circumstances.

Conviction or convicted means any confession to a crime; a verdict or judgment finding a person guilty of a crime; any entered plea, including nolo contendre or Alford plea, to a crime; or receipt of deferred adjudication (whether judgment or sentence has been entered or not) for an accused or pled crime.

Crime means any offense declared to be a felony or misdemeanor by Federal or State law in the jurisdiction where the act occurs.





Kind of different in context. I know conservatives dislike context, however, conservatives are gnerally morons, and they voted for Bush, so we know they're useless.



Anywho, you're all being idiots, and acting like one word in a specific context can only possibly have one meaning. This is a retarded semantics game. Typical conservatives.
 
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It shows an accepted definition of a crime you stupid dumbass.

Honestly, this has to be the most stupid argument ever. Being illegal isn't a crime.
Listen to what you're saying. And i recognize the nuance you attempt to explain your ridiculous stance, but i'm sorry, by definition, being here without having registered with INS or whatever agency de jour you want to pick, IS illegal and in violation of federal law and is therefore a fucking crime.
 
uscitizen said:
a felony is a crime, but a crime is not necessarially a felony. got it ?
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A felony is a serious crime. Less serious crimes are called misdemeanors.

Both are crimes.

If you want to paint it with a different word, then fine, but it makes zero difference. Everyone with half a brain understands that entering a country without permission is agaisnt the law. And anyone with half a brain can see the sophistry you morons are trying to pull off as debate. What a joke.
 
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