Christofacists at it again

[Brent]

NOW is tax-exempt:

Contributions to NOW are not tax deductible because of our grassroots lobbying work. NOW is a non-profit, tax-exempt membership organization working politically and legislatively to advance women's rights.

https://www.now.org/member.html

NOW stands for National Organization FOR WOMEN. See, even the title reeks of "sexism" (according to LadyT logic), so I think LadyT will agree NOW should lose their tax-exempt status. No?

 

[Cancel7]

I would say the role of women in childbirth was ordained by God:

Gen. 3:16 - "To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

If he shall rule over her, she is not his equal. They are not separate but equal as you claim they are, she is his inferior. (though I do agree with IHG point that separate but equal is not equal anyway). Still, this is blatant.

 

[Cancel7]

It is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate churches into following your twisted feminist ideals. It is social engineering of religious institutions, and I find it immoral and disgusting. Stop lying and speak freely -- you're not fooling anyone.

They're tax exempt, and yet they preach from a bully pulpit, and very often endorse political candidates both implicitly and explitly. They are attempting to create a society wherein a woman is a second class citizen, subservient to pimple faced virgins such as yourself. Much like the Taliban, the only way most of you can get laid is by instituting a society like this, whether it be a small one, in your church, or better yet, a larger one, with more choices of compliant women, in society at large.

And all the while they are stealing tax dollars, so why don't you Brent, shove it up your ass sideways ok?

 

[Cancel7]

Good point, Care. I think you're correct. My church files as a non-profit organization, not as a "church." There is no category for "church" as far as I know.

No prick. If they intervene politically or are involved in lobbying, they are at risk of losing their tax exempt status. You do not gain tax exempt status simply by being a non-profit. There are rules.

 

[Cancel7]

I don't see how that has any relevance to the point at hand. I would move to apply the same rules to other non-profits as well. While churches aren't specifically mentioned in the IRC code as mentioned in this pamphlet, but they do recognize that certain non-profits are churches.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

What I did find interesting was this little tid bit of the IRC Section 501c3 which states that,

"the organization's purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy"

I'd think firing someone after 54 years for being a woman qualifies as gender discrimination.

Yes. And that is a good point.

 

[Cancel7]

Tiana, do Sunday School teachers get paid? They were all volunteers teaching Sunday school when I was young??

Thus, your point is moot.

And if she was a paid employee of some sort, I totally agree with you! It is discrimination!

not because they can't have rules like this in their church, because they can have rules like this in their own church because OUR CONSTITUTION says that Congress can make no law regarding an established church....but because she was in this position for years of teaching this Sunday School class and was picked by them to do this job, I presume, and now, changing the rules midstream seem unfair.

And I do not in any way agree with this minister's interpretation of the Bible that would prevent a woman from teaching Sunday school or Catechism....

Discrimination is not dependent on whether or not one is paid, if it were, we would still have black and white parts of buses, and clubs that didn't allow Jews. Discrimination is discrimination.

 

[Cancel7]

Hmm. Well then, I think you would agree NOW (National Organization for Women) should lose their tax-exempt status. Why should an organization which does not accept male members be receiving tax-exempt status (by your logic)?

Fool. Who told you NOW doesn't accept male members? You believe anything an older, male authority figure tells you, don't you?

Sad.

How very frightened you must be.

 

[Cancel7]

It is not against the Law Tiana.....

It is not discrimination, a church can also choose not to have a gay man teaching sunday school if they wish....or an out of wedlock mother teaching Sunday school.....they can do anything they want and so can most small employers....

even affirmative action does not apply to any private entity, (that does not receive government money).....

it's a sad state of affairs, but I believe this is the case....

She's not claiming that it is though, if I read her right. She's stating the fact that it is discrimination, and it is. And questioning whether they deserve the tax exempt status, which as we know, is something that can be taken away, and does have to be earned.

 

[Cancel7]

So NOW, who doesn't allow men, should have their non-profit status revoked?

What was this? A rumor going around the he-man's women hater club?

 

[Cancel7]

but why would YOU REALLY want the government to do that? control the membership of private non profits and change the doctrine of an established church?

that is just tooooo controlling for me and is also against the first amendment, and gives way too much power to our gvt, power i never would be comfortable giving them....

in this case tiana....''...it's deeper than pastry''....giving credit to dixie for the line....

it's not as easy as you think, and truely, i don't understand your goal or the purpose of your goal ??


they don't make a profit tiana, there is not any profitable income to tax?

It's not controling them, because if they don't like it, they can opt out of the tax exempt status. The same logic I have seen used on this thread regarding churches. If you dont like them don't join. So if it's good for the goose...

Also Care, I cannot believe you actually believe these churches are non-profit. The best career move one can make these days is to open a mega-church. Come on now.

 

[Cancel7]

NOW is tax-exempt:

Contributions to NOW are not tax deductible because of our grassroots lobbying work. NOW is a non-profit, tax-exempt membership organization working politically and legislatively to advance women's rights.

https://www.now.org/member.html

NOW stands for National Organization FOR WOMEN. See, even the title reeks of "sexism" (according to LadyT logic), so I think LadyT will agree NOW should lose their tax-exempt status. No?

Hey pimple face...you originally made the claim that men WERE NOT ALLOWED. So instead of changing your story and hoping no one will notice, tell Tiana you were wrong.

Once she decides to accept your groveling apology, we can go from there.

 

[Cancel7]

Care, if they don't make any profits, why do they need tax-exempt status? Why, when the IRS started sending letters to more liberal congregations, warning them that they could lose their tax-exempt status, did they get up in arms? Even more interesting, why did the far larger number of rightie churches strongly support them? Apparently they figured out something the bush adminstration had not; eventually, a dem would take office and if liberal congregations had been stripped of their tax exempt status, well...get ready righties.

So, this was something that united both the liberals and the right. If they make no profits, why? Why didn't they just read the letter, shrug and laugh. Joke about it even! Sit around after a long day of tithe collections and say "Boy, I'd hate to be the IRS thinking they had this pittance spent already".

 

[Care4all]

She's not claiming that it is though, if I read her right. She's stating the fact that it is discrimination, and it is. And questioning whether they deserve the tax exempt status, which as we know, is something that can be taken away, and does have to be earned.

Tax exempt status is not given to churches because they are a church, it is given to them because they are a non profit organization, JUST AS A KAZILLION other non profit organization.....

if you want to change the criteria for non profits, then you must change the criteria for EVERY SINGLE NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION OUT THERE....you can not revoke the Church's nonprofit status willy nilly....or at your beckon call, without effecting all other nonprofits out there.....

And yes, there are ministers that form churches just to rip their parrishioners off and take their donations to the church for themselves....but that is a crime, in and of itself.....

That's all I am saying Darla.....

As far as campaigning from the pulpit for a candidate by the minister of the church....that is against the LAW and should not happen.... even though it did happen with the Bushites quite a bit....which should have been stopped....because it is against the rules of being a NONPROFIT organization.

That should be addressed on a one on one basis.....

Yes, Churches are non profit, just like the March of Dimes or the Salvation Army, or the Catholic Charities, the NRA, NOW, you name it nonprofit, etc....

care

 

[LadyT]

but why would YOU REALLY want the government to do that? control the membership of private non profits and change the doctrine of an established church?

that is just tooooo controlling for me and is also against the first amendment, and gives way too much power to our gvt, power i never would be comfortable giving them....

in this case tiana....''...it's deeper than pastry''....giving credit to dixie for the line....

it's not as easy as you think, and truely, i don't understand your goal or the purpose of your goal ??


they don't make a profit tiana, there is not any profitable income to tax?

The goal is simple: If you are a non-profit who's organization is has institutional sexism, racism or bigotry, you should not be able to qualify for a tax-exempt status. It is as simple as that. They can continue to be sexist and racist pigs all they want, however they shouldn't be afforded the luxury of being tax exempt though. If they are so "principled" then the monetary savings they'd enjoy wouldn't matter, now would it?

 

[LadyT]

Tax exempt status is not given to churches because they are a church, it is given to them because they are a non profit organization, JUST AS A KAZILLION other non profit organization.....

if you want to change the criteria for non profits, then you must change the criteria for EVERY SINGLE NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION OUT THERE....you can not revoke the Church's nonprofit status willy nilly....or at your beckon call, without effecting all other nonprofits out there.....

For the umpteenth time............ANY non profit that practices institutionalized racism, sexism, or bigotry should have its status removed.

Yes, Churches are non profit, just like the March of Dimes or the Salvation Army, or the Catholic Charities, the NRA, NOW, you name it nonprofit, etc....

care

And if the NRA decides it won't accept Abhorigines people they should have their status yanked as well.

 

[Care4all]

The goal is simple: If you are a non-profit who's organization is has institutional sexism, racism or bigotry, you should not be able to qualify for a tax-exempt status. It is as simple as that. They can continue to be sexist and racist pigs all they want, however they shouldn't be afforded the luxury of being tax exempt though. If they are so "principled" then the monetary savings they'd enjoy wouldn't matter, now would it?

What do you tax them on? Fill out the Irs form for me, so I can understand?


If any business takes it's money and donates it or uses it for charity purposes, that money that this business made as profit is tax exempt...

So, if churches collect money and use the money to help the poor, then those donations are tax exempt.....

how would you rewrite the law? I guess, I really don't understand?

you can't tell churches who to hire for a task or position in their church...they have Church Doctrine of their own to follow....for example there are no WOMEN PRIESTS in the Catholic Church....

you want to dictate, INDIRECTLY, a church's doctrine....THAT is against our constitution...

 

[LadyT]

you can't tell churches who to hire for a task or position in their church...they have Church Doctrine of their own to follow....for example there are no WOMEN PRIESTS in the Catholic Church....

you want to dictate, INDIRECTLY, a church's doctrine....THAT is against our constitution...

Tax-Exempt status isn't a right. Its a priveledge that is afforded to certain organizations that meet the criteria. No one would be dictating what they could and couldn't do, changing someone's tax status isn't changing the churches doctrine directly or indirectly. If you pull someone's TE status for endorsing a candidate, is that manipulating the churches doctrine? No. You're taking away a priveledge that they abused. They can continue to slowly drag their knuckles into the 21st century if they want to - no one would be stopping them.

 

[Care4all]

Tax-Exempt status isn't a right. Its a priveledge that is afforded to certain organizations that meet the criteria. No one would be dictating what they could and couldn't do, changing someone's tax status isn't changing the churches doctrine directly or indirectly. If you pull someone's TE status for endorsing a candidate, is that manipulating the churches doctrine? No. You're taking away a priveledge that they abused. They can continue to slowly drag their knuckles into the 21st century if they want to - no one would be stopping them.

So, unless a church changes their Doctrine to allow women priests or Gay Pastors, you want to pull their exempt status?

that is against the law.... you don't control who a private entity hires, but now you want to do it to not for profits?

I disagree with you...you are most CERTAINLY trying to change Church doctrine via our government, for what YOU THINK their Doctrine should include...ie. Female Priests....or else you are cutting them off...

So, once all of these churches are NOT tax exempt status, you also make all Donations to the Church taxable, and all the donations I give to the Catholic or Jewish Charities will no longer be tax deductible....and that's BS!!!!!!!

This all began by you posting an article about a church's female VOLUNTEER Sunday School teacher that was supposedly being dismissed because the Church changed their Doctrine......

What business is this of yours in the first place? It's not any of your business or my business Tiana.... it is the business of the Church itself and its VOLUNTARY members.... if they think it is unfair to this Sunday School teacher and she brings it before the congregation, then they get to decide....that is how it works and should work....

If this voluntary sunday school teacher is kept from teaching sunday school with this Church membership then she can change her church to find a church that accepts women.... If a woman wants to be a Pastor and the Catholic Church's doctrine does not allow such then she has to go to another Church that accepts women priests or pastors....there are some out there for her to pursue her calling...

Our Churches in this country take care of the needy more than any charties in the world....by taking away tax exempt status would drastically cut these charties...........DRASTICALLY CUT the help for the needy and poor and sick.

 

[Care4all]

Talking about a candidate is not changing Church Doctrine Tiana.....that is a rule that does not involve any kind of Doctrine at all....


Telling a church that they MUST HIRE GAY MINISTERS OR FEMALE PRIESTS, OR ELSE you are going to take away their tax exempt status is MOST CERTAINLY the government trying to dictate to churches who they can have as members running their organization.

 

[LadyT]

So, unless a church changes their Doctrine to allow women priests or Gay Pastors, you want to pull their exempt status?

that is against the law.... you don't control who a private entity hires, but now you want to do it to not for profits?

Most private entity hires I know of aren't TE. If they are (lets say a local gov't agency), they are equal opportunity employers and its against company policy to discriminate on someone based on their gender.

I disagree with you...you are most CERTAINLY trying to change Church doctrine via our government, for what YOU THINK their Doctrine should include...ie. Female Priests....or else you are cutting them off...

Again, TE status isn't a right. Its a priveledge that the IRS affords certain organizations that meet certain criteria. If you don't meet it, then you can't get that priveledge, its that simple. Otherwise, they can pony up the dough like everyone else.

So, once all of these churches are NOT tax exempt status, you also make all Donations to the Church taxable, and all the donations I give to the Catholic or Jewish Charities will no longer be tax deductible....and that's BS!!!!!!!

Well, I for one don't give to charities for the tax deduction. Its a nice added benefit - a bonus if you will, but its not a right. For those that want to give based on the ability to claim it as a deduction on their taxes, there would be other organizations that wouldn't violate my proposed addendum to IRC Section 501c3.

This all began by you posting an article about a church's female VOLUNTEER Sunday School teacher that was supposedly being dismissed because the Church changed their Doctrine......

"supposedly"? LOL, that's what the minister himself said. Electing to adopt a doctrine that is gender biased should disqualify you immediately from the TE status. If its one or two cases, fine, but if its systematic and institutionalized then they shouldn't be afforded that priveledge.

What business is this of yours in the first place? It's not any of your business or my business Tiana....

That's more money we as tax payers are going to have to foot the bill for. We've got a deficit that's not going anywhere. We all have to pay our fair share, if an organization is going to discriminate against women, its immoral for me and other women to have to come up with their share of the tax pool.



" it is the business of the Church itself and its VOLUNTARY members.... if they think it is unfair to this Sunday School teacher and she brings it before the congregation, then they get to decide....that is how it works and should work...."

I've never said I cared one way or the other what they do. I just care about their ability to claim a TE status. No one is stopping them from having witch trials or exorcisms. I really don't care about that. Its all about the TE exemption.


"If this voluntary sunday school teacher is kept from teaching sunday school with this Church membership then she can change her church to find a church that accepts women.... If a woman wants to be a Pastor and the Catholic Church's doctrine does not allow such then she has to go to another Church that accepts women priests or pastors....there are some out there for her to pursue her calling..."

Again, immaterial. I have said nothing that eludes ot the fact that they can't do what they want.

Our Churches in this country take care of the needy more than any charties in the world....by taking away tax exempt status would drastically cut these charties...........DRASTICALLY CUT the help for the needy and poor and sick.

I think that's a bit dramatic.