Clinton's WV landslide not as impressive as Obama's landslides

blackascoal said:
The battle beyond the curtail is between the progressives and activists in the Democratic Party against the republican wing of the party as represented by the DLC.

What has happened is that all-out war has been declared. The Clintons have abandoned the progressives and now solely rely on conservative democrats and really dumb liberal democrats who think the Clintons are one of them.

This is why the money will keep on coming for Obama because he's representing a huge constituency of antiwar activists and liberal democrats.

But all out war has been declared and the winner will control the destiny of the Democratic Party.
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That may be bac, but I am alarmed over the bitterness I see on the part of many, many, democratic women. Are we to say, too bad your feelings are stupid and we don’t need you?

I feel that I myself have fallen too much into this hate bashing of Hillary, because I am very frustrated by this primary and by some of her behavior. I have been very frustrated for a long time, ever since I realized that the democrats weren’t going to nominate John Edwards, who I still like best. But I’m not sure that hating on Hillary was the best response to this frustration.

When you have 30 – 50 percent of democratic Hillary voters saying they will vote for McCain, then maybe we need to look at our own selves. I have been doing that.

Nobody wants Obama to become president any great deal more than I do. I want it pretty badly. He has won me over more in the past months since I voted for Edwards in my primary even though he had already dropped out. But I don’t think this bashing of Hillary and her supporters, which I have been very guilty of myself, is helping anybody, including Obama.
 
blackascoal said:
She doesn't and she knows Obama will never choose her.

What the Clintons want is power for the DLC.

They may demand that Obama put someone like Ed Rendall on the ticket.

Obama will say no.

Obama/Nunn
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Sam Nunn is far too conservative for me and I sincerely hope Obama does not pick him.
 
Darla said:
Sorry, I can only completely decimate two or three of your “points” per post. If you had another one you’d like me to destroy, please do bump it up and I will take a look darlin.
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She believes he may lose and is working towards 2012.

You still have yet to "decimate" any of my points. She doesn't want the job. I notice that when a lefty says the exact same thing you don't even attempt to "decimate" his opinion.

Weak.
 
"But I don’t think this bashing of Hillary and her supporters, which I have been very guilty of myself, is helping anybody, including Obama."

It isn't helping, but part of me can't help it. I understand what you've been saying about women & seeing Obama as the upstart taking the more qualified person's place simply because she's a woman, but I am also kind of disgusted by how quickly so many of them have been to turn on Obama, and adopt Republican talking points about Wright & patriotism & all of that. So more & more, I feel like, screw 'em; let them vote for McCain out of spite, and watch Roe get repealed & women's rights erode for the next 4 years.

I think for many of them, it's become more about Hillary the idea as opposed to Hillary the actual person. They've lost perspective on this; I know it's a bitter disappointment for many, but that doesn't mean you have to pick up your marbles & head to the GOP.
 
Onceler said:
"But I don’t think this bashing of Hillary and her supporters, which I have been very guilty of myself, is helping anybody, including Obama."

It isn't helping, but part of me can't help it. I understand what you've been saying about women & seeing Obama as the upstart taking the more qualified person's place simply because she's a woman, but I am also kind of disgusted by how quickly so many of them have been to turn on Obama, and adopt Republican talking points about Wright & patriotism & all of that. So more & more, I feel like, screw 'em; let them vote for McCain out of spite, and watch Roe get repealed & women's rights erode for the next 4 years.

I think for many of them, it's become more about Hillary the idea as opposed to Hillary the actual person. They've lost perspective on this; I know it's a bitter disappointment for many, but that doesn't mean you have to pick up your marbles & head to the GOP.
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You know though Onceler, a lot of liberals, including liberal sites and bloggers on the net, have been using right wing talking points against Hillary, which infuriates me. I can take on an argument against Hillary, and a damned good one, without using right wing sites and right wing stupid, and paranoid, and outlandish arguments. So this has occurred on both sides.

And there are Obama supporters who are carried away by the idea too.

I want to be clear; I don't believe that Hillary IS the more qualified person. But many of them sincerely do.
 
They are already talking about it in MA how Patrick already has a foot out the door as our governor to serve in the Obama administration.
 
Damocles said:
She believes he may lose and is working towards 2012.

You still have yet to "decimate" any of my points. She doesn't want the job. I notice that when a lefty says the exact same thing you don't even attempt to "decimate" his opinion.

Weak.
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I think she does believe he may very well lose. But I think she might believe that she can push him over the top if she’s on the ticket. So I don’t think it’s true that she doesn’t want the job. But I’m not sure actually. I don’t know how you would be. Have you spoken to her?
 
Darla said:
I think she does believe he may very well lose. But I think she might believe that she can push him over the top if she’s on the ticket. So I don’t think it’s true that she doesn’t want the job. But I’m not sure actually. I don’t know how you would be. Have you spoken to her?
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I have. She said 'look here wack job'. I said that's 'wack-o' Ms. Clinton and she roll her eyes at me. If she's not President she wants to run Congress. She basically told me without saying it that there is no way she's playing second fiddle to Michelle Obama. That's your inside scoop.
 
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When I step back & can actually be objective - which is challenging, but it can happen - I agree with you; it is happening on both sides, and I know I've done it w/ Hillary, and I think that's why this is turning into such a bitter divide, no matter who wins.

Honestly, though (and warning here: this is Danectodal), I don't hear Obama supporters saying they'll rush to McCain in the fall the way Hillary supporters come out & say it. Maybe because it's not a realistic possibility that Hillary will be the candidate, and they haven't had to go there.
 
Onceler said:
When I step back & can actually be objective - which is challenging, but it can happen - I agree with you; it is happening on both sides, and I know I've done it w/ Hillary, and I think that's why this is turning into such a bitter divide, no matter who wins.

Honestly, though (and warning here: this is Danectodal), I don't hear Obama supporters saying they'll rush to McCain in the fall the way Hillary supporters come out & say it. Maybe because it's not a realistic possibility that Hillary will be the candidate, and they haven't had to go there.
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No the voting for McCain thing appears to be happening in large numbers only among Hillary voters. It’s an act of spite though, and as you say, Obama voters haven’t had to go there. I don’t know that they would and am not claiming that.
 
Darla said:
I think she does believe he may very well lose. But I think she might believe that she can push him over the top if she’s on the ticket. So I don’t think it’s true that she doesn’t want the job. But I’m not sure actually. I don’t know how you would be. Have you spoken to her?
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It's an opinion. One that you have apparently not "decimated". I even pointed out why I think she doesn't want the job. You so far have given me a differing opinion, but not one ounce of assurance or even evidence that I am wrong. And when presented with the exact same opinion from somebody you think of as "ally" you ignore it and seem fully willing to allow the opinion to remain un"decimated".
 
Damocles said:
It's an opinion. One that you have apparently not "decimated". I even pointed out why I think she doesn't want the job. You so far have given me a differing opinion, but not one ounce of assurance or even evidence that I am wrong. And when presented with the exact same opinion from somebody you think of as "ally" you ignore it and seem fully willing to allow the opinion to remain un"decimated".
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What are you upset about baby?

Did someone else say that?

The point of your post that riled me was that Hillary would be sitting there “waiting for obama to die” which is untrue and stupid. Did someone else say that? If so, again, please bump it up and I’ll address them too, if only to stop your crying over your “unfair treatment”.

Jesus, the men on here are awfully high maintenance, and I’m only one woman.
 
Darla said:
What are you upset about baby?

Did someone else say that?

The point of your post that riled me was that Hillary would be sitting there “waiting for obama to die” which is untrue and stupid. Did someone else say that? If so, again, please bump it up and I’ll address them too, if only to stop your crying over your “unfair treatment”.

Jesus, the men on here are awfully high maintenance, and I’m only one woman.
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Upset? I simply point out that my opinion remains undecimated, and that your argument was weak.

As for the "waiting to die" it was from a quote from a VP from long ago. See if you can find it. It was one of those things that I actually thought everybody who was into politics would have heard.
 
Darla said:
That may be bac, but I am alarmed over the bitterness I see on the part of many, many, democratic women. Are we to say, too bad your feelings are stupid and we don’t need you?

I feel that I myself have fallen too much into this hate bashing of Hillary, because I am very frustrated by this primary and by some of her behavior. I have been very frustrated for a long time, ever since I realized that the democrats weren’t going to nominate John Edwards, who I still like best. But I’m not sure that hating on Hillary was the best response to this frustration.

When you have 30 – 50 percent of democratic Hillary voters saying they will vote for McCain, then maybe we need to look at our own selves. I have been doing that.

Nobody wants Obama to become president any great deal more than I do. I want it pretty badly. He has won me over more in the past months since I voted for Edwards in my primary even though he had already dropped out. But I don’t think this bashing of Hillary and her supporters, which I have been very guilty of myself, is helping anybody, including Obama.
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I feel you sister, but don't get it twisted.

Being anti-Hillary is not the same as being anti-woman, no differently than being anti-Obama is not the same as being anti-black. Nor should you fall for the "her supporters will vote for McCain" nonsense, or even the "hard-working whites" nonsense. McCain is having difficulty getting republicans to get behind him .. and ALL emperical evidence shows the republicans are going to get their asses handed to them in November .. which includes yesterdays election in MISSISSIPPI.

The battle before you is for the soul (no pun intended) of the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton represents what has failed within the party, a failure to even be an opposition party.

Clinton has taken to republican tactics at the expense of unity. She feels entitled to the throne, the Clintons feel entitled to power.

I think this battle is good for the party because its way past time that power should be wrested from the Clintons and its way past time for the Democratic Party to actually stand for something again.

I have no doubt of which side of the party you stand. I don't think you've bashed Hillary or her supporters unjustly at all. This is intellectual warfare, and like all wars, you have to pick a side my sister.

You've made the better choice.
 
Damocles said:
Upset? I simply point out that my opinion remains undecimated, and that your argument was weak.
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Your "opinion" that Hillary would have to sit there and wait for Obama to die, were she vp, was decimitated. What other Vp is going to be sitting there waiting for the president to die Damo? A little bit of the old black widow spider in there huh?

As far as your opinion that she doesn’t want the position, anyone can make assumptions on that either way, and many of us have, and I really don’t care, which is why I didn’t address that “point” in my original post. Are you done whining yet?
 
blackascoal said:
She doesn't and she knows Obama will never choose her.

What the Clintons want is power for the DLC.

They may demand that Obama put someone like Ed Rendall on the ticket.

Obama will say no.

Obama/Nunn
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I still think Biden will be it. He is a bit more palatable for the majority of Dems than Nunn is. Though Nunn would certainly make the south more interesting.
 
blackascoal said:
I feel you sister, but don't get it twisted.

Being anti-Hillary is not the same as being anti-woman, no differently than being anti-Obama is not the same as being anti-black. Nor should you fall for the "her supporters will vote for McCain" nonsense, or even the "hard-working whites" nonsense. McCain is having difficulty getting republicans to get behind him .. and ALL emperical evidence shows the republicans are going to get their asses handed to them in November .. which includes yesterdays election in MISSISSIPPI.

The battle before you is for the soul (no pun intended) of the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton represents what has failed within the party, a failure to even be an opposition party.

Clinton has taken to republican tactics at the expense of unity. She feels entitled to the throne, the Clintons feel entitled to power.

I think this battle is good for the party because its way past time that power should be wrested from the Clintons and its way past time for the Democratic Party to actually stand for something again.

I have no doubt of which side of the party you stand. I don't think you've bashed Hillary or her supporters unjustly at all. This is intellectual warfare, and like all wars, you have to pick a side my sister.

You've made the better choice.
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I’m not comfortable dismissing all, or even most of Hillary’s supporters in this manner though. I think it’s a mistake to do so. And I also want to add, that I never would say that being anti-hillary is being anti-women. I’m anti-hillary. This is about dismissing the majority of her supporters as stupid, or as DLC’ers. I doubt they’re either.
 
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Darla said:
Your "opinion" that Hillary would have to sit there and wait for Obama to die, were she vp, was decimitated. What other Vp is going to be sitting there waiting for the president to die Damo? A little bit of the old black widow spider in there huh?

As far as your opinion that she doesn’t want the position, anyone can make assumptions on that either way, and many of us have, and I really don’t care, which is why I didn’t address that “point” in my original post. Are you done whining yet?
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No, that again was a remark towards a quote from a past VP who said, (paraphrasing here), "The VP's job is easy you get up in the morning and check to see if the President is still alive." One of those things that I thought all people who are into politics might have heard and recognized.

My opinion is that she doesn't want the VP position because it is far less powerful than her Senate position, and she believes that Obama may lose and wants to position herself for 2012.
 
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