Conservative Myth That Oil Companies Not That Profitable....

C

CanadianKid

New member
Well since we have Topspin and all the other cronies on here saying that compared to other industries that oil companies profits are normal...

Well lets actually take a look shall we...

This is from the Fortune 500 piece...
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/snapshots/2255.html




Walmart

Billions
Revenues 378,799
Profits 12,731
Assets 163,514

Profits as % of
Revenues 3.4
Assets 7.8
Stockholders' equity 19.7

Exxon Mobil

Billions
Revenues 372,824
Profits 40,610
Assets 242,082

Profits as % of
Revenues 10.9
Assets 16.8
Stockholders' equity 33.4


Chevron

Revenues 210,783
Profits 18,688
Assets 148,786

Profits as % of
Revenues 8.9
Assets 12.6
Stockholders' equity 24.2



Lets compare that to other leading American companies shall we?


GM

Revenues 182,347.0
Profits -38,732.0
Assets 148,883.0

Profits as % of
Revenues -21.2
Assets -26.0

FORD

Revenues 172,468
Profits -2,723.0
Assets 279,264.0

Profits as % of
Revenues -1.6
Assets -1.0
Stockholders' equity -48.4


CITIGROUP

Revenues 159,229.0
Profits 3,617.0
Assets 2,187,631.0

Profits as % of
Revenues 2.3
Assets 0.2
Stockholders' equity 3.2


HOME DEPOT

Revenues 84,740
Profits 4,395
Assets 44,324

Profits as % of
Revenues 5.2
Assets 9.9
Stockholders' equity 24.8

CK
 
Lets look at some other companies too, shall we?

Proctor & Gamble

Revenues 76,476.0
Profits 10,340.0
Assets 138,014.0 —
Stockholders' equity 66,760.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 213,701.5 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 13.5
Assets 7.5
Stockholders' equity 15.5



J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.

Revenues 116,353.0
Profits 15,365.0
Assets 1,562,147.0 —
Stockholders' equity 123,221.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 145,066.2 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 13.2
Assets 1.0
Stockholders' equity 12.5



IBM

Revenues 98,786.0
Profits 10,418.0
Assets 120,431.0 —
Stockholders' equity 28,470.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 158,602.8 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 10.5
Assets 8.7
Stockholders' equity 36.6





Goldman Sachs Group

Revenues 87,968.0
Profits 11,599.0
Assets 1,119,796.0 —
Stockholders' equity 42,800.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 64,976.0 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 13.2
Assets 1.0
Stockholders' equity 27.1




Johnson & Johnson

Revenues 61,095.0
Profits 10,576.0
Assets 80,954.0 —
Stockholders' equity 43,319.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 181,615.2 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 17.3
Assets 13.1
Stockholders' equity 24.4






The profit margins on these companies are as high or higher (depending on whether you look at it as % of revenue or of assets) as the oil companies.
 
Looking at profits as a percentage of revenue (how much of each dollar that comes in that is profit), the oil companies are not out of line.

Exxon's profit margin was 10.9% and Chevron's was 8.9%.

Proctor & Gambles profit margin was 13.5%. J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. had a profit margin of 13.2%. IBM's profit margin was 10.5%, and no one is screaming at them for their profits.

Johnson & Johnson had a profit margin of 17.5%. They produce pharmaceuticals. But when people cannot afford their medicines I don't see anyone talking about the evils of the huge profits by pharmaceutical companies.

Wachovia

Revenues 55,528.0 18.6
Profits 6,312.0 -19.0
Assets 782,896.0 —
Stockholders' equity 76,872.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 51,501.5 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 11.4
Assets 0.8
Stockholders' equity 8.2


So for every hundred dollars that Wachovia took in, $11.40 was profit. That beats either oil company mentioned. But no one is screaming about Wachovia raping us for profits. And I bet the bounced check fees they charge have seriously messed up some lower income people's budgets.


According to that Fortune 500 article, Exxon had a 7.4% increase in profits, while AT&T had an 88.6% increase in their profits during the same period.


No, oil companies are not wildly out of line with other companies.

In fact, look at Conoco and compare it to the ones I listed above.

Conoco/Philips Oil Company

Revenues 178,558.0
Profits 11,891.0
Assets 177,757.0 —
Stockholders' equity 88,983.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 120,284.6 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 6.7
Assets 6.7
Stockholders' equity 13.4



Then there is always Microsoft

Revenues 51,122.0
Profits 14,065.0
Assets 63,171.0 —
Stockholders' equity 31,097.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 259,757.8 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 27.5
Assets 22.3
Stockholders' equity 45.2
 
Solitary thinks he is so cute...but the conservative troll misses the point of the post....

The point is oil companies are making so much money with so few employees...driving up their profitability margins....

Profitability is the key word....

And where do the oil companies come?

Horrible behind.....


Position Company name Employees Revenue
(US$ Millions) Profit
(US$ Millions) Fortune Global
500 Rank
1. Wal-Mart Stores 1,800,000 $315,654 $11,231 2
2. China National Petroleum 1,090,232 $83,557 $12,950 39
3. State Grid 844,031 $86,984 $1,074 32
4. U.S. Postal Service 803,000 $69,907 $1,445 61
5. Sinopec 730,800 $98,785 $2,668 23
6. Deutsche Post 502,545 $59,990 $2,777 75
7. Agricultural Bank of China 478,895 $17,166 $0,127 377
8. UES of Russia 461,200 $27,768 $1,868 213
9. Siemens 461,000 $100,099 $2,855 22
10. McDonald's 447,000 $20,460 $2,602 318
11. Carrefour 440,479 $94,455 $1,784 25
12. Compass Group 410,074 $23,469 $0,002 260
13. China Telecommunications 407,982 $22,736 $2,376 279
14. United Parcel Service 407,000 $42,581 $3,870 129
15. Gazprom 396,571 $50,824 $14,865 102
16. DaimlerChrysler 382,724 $186,106 $3,536 7
17. Industrial & Commercial Bank of China 361,623 $29,167 $4,114 199
18. Hitachi 355,879 $83,596 $0,330 38
19. Sears Holdings 355,000 $49,124 $0,858 107
20. Volkswagen 344,902 $118,377 $1,392 17
21. Target 338,000 $52,620 $2,408 97
22. General Motors 335,000 $192,604 -$10,567 5
23. Matsushita Electric Industrial 334,402 $78,558 $1,364 47
24. China State Construction 332,585 $14,122 $0,166 486
25. Intl. Business Machines 329,373 $91,134 $7,934 29
26. Sodexho Alliance 324,446 $14,819 $0,202 459
27. General Electric 316,000 $157,153 $16,353 11
28. La Poste 303,405 $24,018 $0,692 252
29. Citigroup 303,000 $131,045 $24,589 14
30. China Construction Bank 300,288 $22,771 $5,749 277
31. Ford Motor 300,000 $177,210 $2,024 9
32. Kroger 290,000 $60,553 $0,958 73
33. Home Depot 289,800 $81,511 $5,838 43
34. Toyota Motor 285,977 $185,805 $12,120 8
35. HSBC Holdings 284,000 $93,494 $15,873 26
36. China Railway Engineering 280,581 $15,294 $0,083 441
37. Tesco 273,024 $71,128 $2,821 59
38. Veolia Environnement 271,153 $31,368 $0,774 185
39. Nestlé 250,000 $74,659 $6,416 53
40. Robert Bosch 248,853 $52,208 $2,919 99
41. Tyco International 247,900 $41,780 $3,032 136
42. Deutsche Telekom 243,695 $74,062 $6,939 54
43. Albertson's 234,000 $40,397 $0,446 139
44. Federated Dept. Stores 232,000 $23,347 $1,406 262
45. China Railway Construction 227,000 $14,139 $0,053 485
46. Mittal Steel 224,286 $28,132 $3,365 208
47. United Technologies 222,200 $42,725 $3,069 126
48. Verizon Communications 217,000 $75,112 $7,397 50
49. Deutsche Bahn 216,389 $31,132 $0,721 188
50. FedEx 215,838 $29,363 $1,449 197
51. Hon Hai Precision Industry 210,932 $28,350 $1,268 206
52. Bank of China 209,265 $23,860 $3,852 255
53. Royal Mail Holdings 208,866 $16,154 $0,705 417
54. Peugeot 208,500 $69,915 $1,279 60
55. Telefónica 207,641 $48,833 $5,524 108
56. Unilever 206,000 $49,581 $4,680 106
57. SNCF 205,839 $26,086 $1,579 229
58. Metro 204,076 $72,814 $0,660 55
59. France Télécom 203,008 $60,933 $7,094 71
60. Safeway 201,000 $38,416 $0,561 146
61. Hutchison Whampoa 200,000 $23,475 $1,844 259
 
Whats your point.................?

Solitary said:
Looking at profits as a percentage of revenue (how much of each dollar that comes in that is profit), the oil companies are not out of line.

Exxon's profit margin was 10.9% and Chevron's was 8.9%.

Proctor & Gambles profit margin was 13.5%. J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. had a profit margin of 13.2%. IBM's profit margin was 10.5%, and no one is screaming at them for their profits.

Johnson & Johnson had a profit margin of 17.5%. They produce pharmaceuticals. But when people cannot afford their medicines I don't see anyone talking about the evils of the huge profits by pharmaceutical companies.

Wachovia

Revenues 55,528.0 18.6
Profits 6,312.0 -19.0
Assets 782,896.0 —
Stockholders' equity 76,872.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 51,501.5 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 11.4
Assets 0.8
Stockholders' equity 8.2


So for every hundred dollars that Wachovia took in, $11.40 was profit. That beats either oil company mentioned. But no one is screaming about Wachovia raping us for profits. And I bet the bounced check fees they charge have seriously messed up some lower income people's budgets.


According to that Fortune 500 article, Exxon had a 7.4% increase in profits, while AT&T had an 88.6% increase in their profits during the same period.


No, oil companies are not wildly out of line with other companies.

In fact, look at Conoco and compare it to the ones I listed above.

Conoco/Philips Oil Company

Revenues 178,558.0
Profits 11,891.0
Assets 177,757.0 —
Stockholders' equity 88,983.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 120,284.6 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 6.7
Assets 6.7
Stockholders' equity 13.4



Then there is always Microsoft

Revenues 51,122.0
Profits 14,065.0
Assets 63,171.0 —
Stockholders' equity 31,097.0 —
Market value (3/28/2008) 259,757.8 —

Profits as % of
Revenues 27.5
Assets 22.3
Stockholders' equity 45.2
Click to expand...



I don't think anyone really cares about exessive profits on unecessary commodities...what we all care about is excessive profits on necessary products to maintain life...such as fuel,food,medical,housing etc...get a clue already!...'This let them eat cake' mentality died under the Guillotine in France at the end of the 18th century! Do you really want to see another revolution of this type?
 
So yes Walmart also makes alot of money but it has 1.8 million employees....

ExxonMobile has 106,000 employees...

So shall we take a look at the profitability or price gouging....

Walmart has a profit of 12.731 Billion with 1.8 million employees

So that is a profit margin of $7073 per employee Walmart

ExxonMobile has profits of 40.61 Billion with 106,000 employees

So that is a profit margin of $383,113 per employee ExxonMobil


Compare $7k to $383k ....Dumbass Solitary thought he was cute but he just looks like a fool like usual...

CK
 
I didn't think I was cute. I was just doing what you did, cherry-picking companies that prove my point.

My point was that the profit margins of oil companies is not out of line with other companies.

What difference does it make how many employees they have? That is a ridiculous comparison. If a company automates they will automatically become evil?

Some inductries are labor intensive and some are not.

The comparison should be based on profit margins. That is the only logical test.



Lmao, but calling me a troll is a bit stupid. A troll is someone who posts outlandish things just to get a rise out of people. That is clearly not what I did.
 
Battleborne said:
I don't think anyone really cares about exessive profits on unecessary commodities...what we all care about is excessive profits on necessary products to maintain life...such as fuel,food,medical,housing etc...get a clue already!...'This let them eat cake' mentality died under the Guillotine in France at the end of the 18th century! Do you really want to see another revolution of this type?
Click to expand...

That is why I put Johnson & Johnson on the list. It is why I included the increased profits of AT&T. Unless communications and medicines are "cake" in your world.
 
Solitary said:
I didn't think I was cute. I was just doing what you did, cherry-picking companies that prove my point.

My point was that the profit margins of oil companies is not out of line with other companies.

What difference does it make how many employees they have? That is a ridiculous comparison. If a company automates they will automatically become evil?

Some inductries are labor intensive and some are not.

The comparison should be based on profit margins. That is the only logical test.


Lmao, but calling me a troll is a bit stupid. A troll is someone who posts outlandish things just to get a rise out of people. That is clearly not what I did.
Click to expand...

Solitary, CK is the troll which is why you can't have a true discussion/debate with him.
 
CanadianKid said:
So yes Walmart also makes alot of money but it has 1.8 million employees....

ExxonMobile has 106,000 employees...

So shall we take a look at the profitability or price gouging....

Walmart has a profit of 12.731 Billion with 1.8 million employees

So that is a profit margin of $7073 per employee Walmart

ExxonMobile has profits of 40.61 Billion with 106,000 employees

So that is a profit margin of $383,113 per employee ExxonMobil


Compare $7k to $383k ....Dumbass Solitary thought he was cute but he just looks like a fool like usual...

CK
Click to expand...


Profits per employee? Where did anyone ever look at profits per employee?

That is a ridiculous way to compare companies in dissimilar industries. Of course walmart has a lower profit per employee than exxon does. Walmart's business is labor intensive, whereas Exxon's is not.

I look stupid? Sorry, but comparing profits per employee in industries that are vastly different is beyond stupid. I has absolutely no bearing at all.
 
Solitary my conservative troll friend... I'll give you another example....

Enron...had a profit margin of $51,000 per employee....and we all know that company was built on ripping consumers off by inflating its oil and gas prices....

Compare Enron's most profitable years to ExxonMobiles by per capita and you will understand price gouging...

CK
 
CanadianKid said:
Solitary my conservative troll friend... I'll give you another example....

Enron...had a profit margin of $51,000 per employee....and we all know that company was built on ripping consumers off by inflating its oil and gas prices....

Compare Enron's most profitable years to ExxonMobiles by per capita and you will understand price gouging...

CK
Click to expand...


Price gouging is having an infladed profit margin.

Your insistence on comparing profits per employee is insane.


Let me help you see. If I run a business that has 10 employees, but lots of automation, and you run a business that has 500 employees and far less automation, your method of comparison makes it look as though I am price gouging. When my profit margin could be FAR lower than yours.



How many employees a company has is not related to this issue at all.
 
CanadianKid said:
Solitary my conservative troll friend... I'll give you another example....

Enron...had a profit margin of $51,000 per employee....and we all know that company was built on ripping consumers off by inflating its oil and gas prices....

Compare Enron's most profitable years to ExxonMobiles by per capita and you will understand price gouging...

CK
Click to expand...

Also, Enron was ripping of its stockholders by inflating its numbers. That is why they folded and why the Sarbanes-Oxley bill was passed. It was not about inflating its prices, but its numbers to its stockholders.
 
Solitary said:
How many employees a company has is not related to this issue at all.
Click to expand...


It is directly related to profitability and whether it is price gouging consumers....

If you have one company with so few employees making so much profit....That doesnt come naturally.....

Thats a result of price gouging....

CK
 
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